5.10 – Call From Noah's Dad

GOOD LORD.

THEY FUCKING KILLED A PUPPY?

Yeah. Fucking burn them.

What a fucking monster.

Did he sound like the guy from the book release party?

Holy shit.

Daddy Sinclair isn’t very smart, is he? No electronic copies of any of the precious files? Leaving them in an unsecured/unmonitored warehouse that his temperamental son knows about? Guess they’re not worth much after all.

He meant toy puppy, right? =\

Oh fuck no. You don’t hurt puppies.

FUCK. ON ALL ACCOUNTS.

@meghanmayhem are you his new favorite toy?

Noah. If you’re reading this, there are people here who want to help you.

Jesus. Fuck this guy.

At least in tone, that story Big Daddy told Meghan about Noah reminds me of way back when Noah told @lilmsfancpants about The Boy Who Cried Wolf and his son. Maybe in the Sinclair family, being a piece of shit just dilutes slightly over the generations.

@meghanmayhem Might be good to watch the book party Periscope and see if it’s the same voice of the old guy (who some of us encountered on our very first day of Tension).

He seems to fit the description. Stern. Angry. Cold.

No wonder Noah is so fucked up.

Wow, this gives the term “Daddy Issues” a whole new meaning. I don’t think he’s going to have any fans.

“uncomfortable agreement” – Yeah I have so little faith in that.

Here’s a video of the book party.

Noah Dad can kiss my ass, those aren’t his files.

They’re ours god damnit.

So between this “we’ll let him keep Sarah” remark and Noah’s comment in the Periscope about how Sarah really tried, can we infer that Sarah was “assigned” to Noah as a wife and they eventually developed a bond? If so, that REALLY speaks volumes about Noah’s family dynamic with regard to just how tightly they run his life. It’s really wonder he developed the way he did. I knew people when I was younger who had brutally strict parents and they invariably became Noah-esque themselves. I think creating chaos is the only way they feel in control.

The most interesting thing about this is that he said the warehouse AND files were his. So did the investors rent the warehouse from Daddy Sinclair or are they all in cahoots?

Did his dad own the warehouse before Noah kicked him out of his company? Or is Noah’s website full of shit and he’s just a spoiled trust fund baby who never had to work for anything and is now rebelling?

Always 2 sides to the story and the puppy is the new shiny thing to focus on while some major shit happens in the background.

#fatherknowsbest

@mike That warehouse detail totally slid by me. That’s especially odd considering that from what Tina said to us it was strongly implied that the space was just being rented for that day’s “adults playing pretend” event

Wow, fuck this dude. If he really killed a puppy, then he’s as evil as he sounds. But, he may have said that to get a reaction from all of us.

@maxzumstein – it would make sense to me that Sarah was assigned to him to pretend to be his wife and they grew fond of one another and now Noah does actually care about her in a weird way.

And, perhaps Tina is simply an employee of Daddy Sinclair and his company was renting out the building to “Lust”? Who knows?

WOW! What a fucking ASSHOLE!! That story of them burning his toys and picturing him as a child holding them in his hands afterwards all destroyed broke my heart ?? & THE PUPPY?! WTF ARE U SERIOUS?! No wonder Noah is so fucked in the head! These people are disgusting.

Why would a parent do that to their own child?! To make him strong? Uncaring? I guess in his line of work he needs to be tough and unattached. Ok. But wow talk about trauma.

Ps. Threats about killing Sarah and @meghanmayhem to keep his son in line?! Is this guy ready for the war he just started? !

What a sick abusive father! Poor Noah…

Also, interesting to think that to Noah’s Dad, Sarah is just another “toy” he can use to teach Noah a lesson with.

If that’s how he views Sarah, what about their son Timothy?

Okay, well, we don’t technically *know* what “after the puppy, that all stopped” means… maybe they just bought him a puppy?

Yeah, probably not.

Buddhism teaches that all suffering is the result of attachment. There is a lot of wisdom in this belief, and when you explore the degree to which our disappointments are a byproduct of our having expectations, it seems only logical that emotional investment in things is a surefire road to misery.

But how far do we take this line of thought?

Anything that casts a shadow is impermanent, and will someday disappear. All that remains is the stuff of thought and dream, in the end.

But people are not things. We may not be able to adequately define them with names, labels, traits, horoscopes, or those annoying Briggs-Meyers categories (I know I’ll catch some shade for that last one – sorry not sorry ;)) – but there is a baseline of distinction we can pretty safely draw insofar as the ethical question of whether it is disposable: sentience.

Even that isn’t super-great as a litmus test, because you don’t ever *really* know if the person you’re talking to is actually sentient, or if you’re maybe filling in the gaps you don’t see with the image you’ve built up of who *you* think they ought to be…

But Mr. Sinclair gave us the answer already. He mentioned that Noah would cling to the “dirty, disgusting, used up toy” they were attempting to remove from him as a “lesson.” Presumably, this lesson was about avoiding attachment, and could be seen as a noble effort to teach the seeds of satori to his offspring – except for one detail: choice.

There’s only one difference between abuse and personal growth – willing participation. You can dunk a kid’s head underwater, burn candles around their crib, recite any number of phrases in ancient languages, yet there remains nothing to confer meaning upon the child save its own conscious choice to accept these things as truth.

Noah was never really given this choice.

This doesn’t mean he’s a saint, of course – he can be a real-time jingle-blaster, and I still wouldn’t blindly follow him through whatever labyrinth he’s trying to lead us through (I do still check the burner for missed calls occasionally) – but it does make him a person who struggles with being controlled by others who refuse to allow him the agency to do what he feels is right…

It makes him one of us, whether he accepts it or not.

I have a lot more sympathy for Noah and Sarah now, as I now understand that their attitudes are a result of daddy Sinclair’s long-term psychological abuse. Noah moreso than Sarah obviously, but it’s now very clear who the real bad guy is (unless there’s more to the story). This man is sick and needs to be taken out or at least arrested for his actions.

Garbage human has garbage father. Sounds about right.

Though I find the whole puppy story to be, as they say, sus af. There is literally no way to hear that story and not feel some sympathy for Noah. Papa Sinclair must know this. Which is why it’s probably manipulative BS.

#nevertrustasinclair

@mike I had thought bobs dad is potentially the “big bad” of tension. As Noah had mentioned while on @meghanmayhem periscope, that his dad had him go in last year to tension to try to “fix things”. Of course there’s always the counter argument that we’re only on Pt2 of tension as a whole and still have another 2 or so seasons, so honestly who knows who will pop up and reveal to be above Noah’s dad.

… I guess there’s also an argument there about how Noah is just character since both Nicole and Marcos had talked about him as just a character. But I would go back to my theory that Noah and Sarah are indeed real people in all of this and that they were just playing the parts of Noah and Sarah, the creators of “the system” but are actually real people just like you and me and are connected to the investors.

I’m not sure if that made any sense? I’m currently out of state trying to play catch up and quickly posting on here lmao

@mike I’m thinking Noah’s dad and whatever group he runs/works for is using the investors as cover for whatever they’re doing. The investors may have no idea what they’re getting involved with. We still don’t know who put the message on the back of the forms from the registration, but we do know at least one of the investors didn’t really care whether people signed or not. The act of signing could be be unimportant to their goals, but that doesn’t quite fit with this group. They want people to be willing even if it is unwittingly.

If Noah’s dad is the guy from the book party (which I realize is totally up in the air at this point, but the references to fire and burning may lend some support to the idea), the trial by fire fits with what he said there, albeit more twisted than it seemed at the time. In his mind, he ground Noah down until he revealed who he truly was without thinking through that he was warping him beyond recognition. Or he knew exactly what he was doing and was trying to mold Noah into what he thought Noah was at his core for his own purposes. A bit ironic that he was unhappy with Noah returning to the toys he had burned though.

@bcbishop I’m very curious what their uncomfortable agreement entails and who benefits from it. Who would Noah sell out to get what he wanted? If it’s us, as you point out, the puppy story is an excellent way to get us siding with him for now.

@bcbishop Y’know. I didn’t want to sound heartless, but I’m a little inclined to agree, at least with regard to the puppy part. Throwing a puppy on a fire seems over the top even by Evil Megalomaniac standards. I mean, replace “burn” with “kick” and you have the actual title of a trope used to characterize villains (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog). It feels a little on the nose, which gives me the inkling that it might be a fabrication, and likely one with manipulative intent. I could be dead wrong and he’s just that evil, but I wonder if this is, as you say, him trying to be a heel for some reason. Either as an intimidation tactic or to direct our sympathies back to Noah, who he can now (or perhaps has always been able to) manipulate in some advantageous way.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Max Z.

god damn, can we have DLB and Clint back already? Noah’s dad has me concerned…

Arch-villain unlocked.

Noah must have, willingly or unwillingly, given up the burner phone?

Not since @gatekeeper3 have we had a “face” to put to the big bad.

My hands are ready.

That is seriously messed up. Burning your child’s favorite toys to teach them a lesson? And then wondering why he holds onto them after they’re burned? No wonder Noah’s messed up and hates his dad. Pop’s is more messed in the head than anyone we’ve come across so far.

And I swear if that puppy story is true and not just something he made up to get a reaction, I’ll definitely light the match.

#burnittotheground

While yes, I agree that telling us about the puppy did more to manipulate us into feeling more for Noah than Dad probably intended, I think the real intent behind it was to send a warning to @meghanmayhem about what could happen to *her* should she become Noah’s next favorite toy. And thereby ratcheting up the stakes for the rest of us, now that we are out of the prologue.

Careful, @meghanmayhem. I know that you can take care of yourself, but don’t overestimate these people.

@maxzumstein GREAT call on the Kick the Dog trope. And isn’t Noah’s sudden redemption pivot to help Sarah equally as trope-y? (At this point, I’m half-expecting him to have a Save the Cat moment to convince us what a solid dude he really is.)

Given that we’ve already been introduced to the concept that some of this may be immersive theater – and if Darren’s call is to be believed, he thinks it is bad immersive theater – are these just signs that this is all fake?

Not trying to detract from anyone’s emotional investment, mind you – I just don’t buy it.

@maxzumstein @bcbishop – I’m not buying it either. Since we first found out about Noah, a lot of people were put off by him and his website and blackmail attempt. Then you had conflicting reports about how charming he was by @lilmsfancpants. Then you had him show up at the focus group drunk and get arrested. This was the first time (in my opinion) that public opinion was swayed from “what an asshole” to sympathy. Then you have him show up to the OC meet up and act like everything is cool and perfect and he’s trying to get better. Ok, more reason to get on board. Then the break in with @meghanmayhem which is totally a “Hey guys, I’m really on your side, let’s bring them down!” type of thing, which again, has more people liking him.

Now we have his father, who says things that makes Noah look like an innocent abused child and then mentions possibly killing a puppy. What better way to get most of us on #teamnoah than a story like that on top of everything else? Something bigger is up. His father wants us all to like Noah and feel bad for him….why? There’s something devious going on.

@meghanmayhem Definitely be careful. It seems “collateral damage” is a thing that follows Noah Sinclair and his shenanigans. Please don’t become a part of that trail!

As far as the behavior of the father, there may be another side to this. He was trying to instill fear in the young lad and “create” a man who functions from a place of fear and mistrust and hatred of loss. Some people think that makes you powerful.
Oh, sure, Dad thought he was imparting wisdom but that’s because he was acting from a narcissistic approach. He was acting without considering how his own son may see the situation – only from his own selfish perspective. What’s truly sad is that Dad probably isn’t even sharp enough to see this, he probably thinks he’s a great parent. (Teaching anything to his son may be second to the agenda of expressing how powerful he was as the father.) @kevin, I think that’s why Dad would be confused by Noah wanting to return to his favorite toys… Dad was not even aware of the real lessons he was teaching his son. Your thoughts on Noah’s development might be dead on.

And, yeah, @bcbishop I agree that Noah’s turn is a bit… concerning and possibly not genuine. But, hey, look how the guy was raised! Maybe the lesson he learned as a child was you express affection by destroying something that belongs to someone else.

@mike and @maxzumstein, you both pointed toward the connection to the warehouse. I know it’s a common big business practice to hide profits by renting from yourself. One company rents a location from another company… the trick is both companies are owned by the same entity. All money stays “in house” even if it moves from one place to another. Clever accounting… and Tina may not have been aware at all of the connection.
I wonder who turned Tina on to that location as a possibility in the first place? She might have been played and never realized it.

@mike @maxzumstein @bcbishop say it is a play to get us on Noah’s side.. how much of a choice do we have?

We’re heading down a lose-lose situation imo. Yes, Noah can and likely will fuck anyone and everyone over, but nobody else here has the access that Noah can provide. And without that access, we’re sitting on our own islands while Noah’s father does whatever he’s going to do.

Noah’s allegiance to any one of us is likely a temporary one, why do we owe him anything different?

@addisonborn – There are always choices 😉

Right now, you’re correct, we only have the access that Noah can provide…BUT….there’s a few other people that have yet to make a huge splash in this world. Splashes create ripples…and those ripples are going to be amazing.

Otis – he’s connected now due to driving Noah. Perhaps he realizes something strange is going on and tries to help
Kristin – she knows more than she’s letting us know. Perhaps tomorrow @111error will find out some info
Sarah – Maybe this actually is a sham marriage and she’s had enough of what’s been happening and helps us
Stacey – Maybe she’s involved and knows things (this goes back to Kristin and the meet up with Morgan)
Accent man – we still don’t know who he “really” is and what he “really” wants
DLB and CS – they can still make a difference. Granted, I don’t know the full extent of what’s happening to them, but I’m sure they can somehow screw the investors over
Noah’s dad – who knows at this point, but…crazy theory…maybe he just doesn’t like @meghanmayhem. What I mean by that is, it’s supposed to be Noah and Sarah…now we have Meghan hanging with him and breaking into things. Maybe he sees Meghan as an enabler of sorts…an enabler of Noah NOT following orders. Who knows at this point

This call got me to thinking about what Noah said about “The Boy Who Cried Wolf.” Thanks @lilmsfancpants for lending me the transription to copy here:

“Most people think that the moral of the story is that you shouldn’t tell a lie, blah blah blah. The real moral of that story is…that fucking boy is the most self-made, self-realized, self-actualized person that ever came out of a work of fucking fiction, or even a work of non-fiction, for that matter. Because who did he have when that wolf got in his fucking head and screwed around with him and nobody would deal with it? He had to pull himself up in his little open-toed fucking sandals, turn his fucking cheek, and he made something of himself. He didn’t have anybody else that he could rely on. That’s what it’s about.”

If Daddy Sinclair is the wolf in this story, maybe we should be less concerned with whether we can trust Noah, and more concerned about what the consequences might be if we fail to make Noah trust us.

Careful about burning things… The Phoenix has a nasty habit of rising from the ashes.

@kevin

@julierei

(At this point, I’m half-expecting him to have a Save the Cat moment to convince us what a solid dude he really is.)

If someone hurts a cat I’m getting on a fucking plane.

Pro Tip to Papa Sinclair:
You don’t have what it takes to intimidate @meghanmayhem. If I were running SinCorp, I’d start getting scared right about… now.
Don’t say that you weren’t warned.

@kipsie OMG SINCORP…. sin with perfection!

I concur with @russell on the idea of the investors renting the warehouse from Mr. Sinclair, probably without their knowledge. It’s a great way to hid profits. Look at big studio movies. A movie can gross $1 billion and break even because the company borrowed money from itself to finance the movie, so has to pay itself interest. Rent equipment and facilities from itself etc. etc. It’s all a big scam.

Also, is anyone else suddenly very nervous about whatever they put in their pictures to iConfidant of the thing they love the most? I definitely don’t want Daddy Sinclair throwing the things I love the most in a fire.

…….shit, I didn’t even think of that @bruinbown.

I’m sorry @birdiesrunamok.

Did much of anything we were told about OOA/OSDM/BOS/DLB/CS pan out. Sure did not. I’ll need a lot more information before making any decision on The Sinclairs. I won’t be insta-swayed by “puppy” or any other emotional ploy. Daddy will have to try a lot harder. Noah will have to try harder. Sarah, yeah…

@nothenrygale This just means we will be in the fire together with my mother. It’s what she wants anyway. 😉

@birdiesrunamok Hoping the OSDM can’t track us to our new place.

@nothenrygale You know that wouldn’t be a problem if we brought Dopey. You know how he enjoys lighting his own fires. Best distraction.

(For reference, my basset hound has accidentally almost burned down my mother’s house twice.)

This fires me ups And uh huh I am living proof (for now) that @meghanmayhem Means business and will enable the hell out of whomever needs the push. Hide your livers.

@meghanmayhem

The low talking in what could almost be another language is interesting. Between the robotic actions in the park and the Stick Guy’s accent, there’s something there which is deeper than we know right now…

@meghanmayhem Yes, that’s me. Last time I put all my money on BOS right in Chapter 1 and held on tight for the duration. I don’t regret the experiences I had, but I also haven’t been able to shake off the final act sting of betrayal just yet. Regardless, I’m sure I’m setting myself up for a swift kick in the ass from the iConfidant crew, but at least this time I’m going in with eyes wide open.

I do respect your passion, Meghan. Noah is fortunate to have you on his team.

Noah seems unhinged and we keep hearing that Sarah was there to keep him inline and failed.

Sarah was worried about her son dying on a phone call to Buz if he wasn’t Noah’s son. The crazy puppy thing seems almost tame in comparison.

Also, Noah said on the periscope he was sent into Tension to fix things and failed. Now he is supposed to be doing this new “opportunity”.

Who is running the show?

If Noah’s dad called it his warehouse did he buy it after Tina found it? It almost sounds like he is the type of person who thinks everything is his?

Either way I think it’s pretty clear we’ve moved past the realm of normal and there is something strange going on with the Sinclair family.

I just don’t see the 4D chess everyone else does I guess.

To me, it seems to me whoever these investors are, whoever is in charge keep trying to put on a front like this is fake theater to the public but Noah, his fucked up dad and whatever Noah was trying to show us on the periscope seem to point to something more.

Jesus Christ. My dad wasn’t the best but at least he never killed my damn dog, lordy.