Let's be honest about ascension (just between friends)

This topic has 107 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 1 month ago by Anonymous.

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    • #2723
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      K. How many of you got ripped (stoned, blunted, bonged, baked, high) before your first trip to ascension? I didn’t know much about it and went in super baked.

      I actually found out about Tension from going to the rope and the other group was disappointed. In fact they weren’t very friendly or talkative, kind of kept offish. But they said they had a bunch of friends that paid 125 bucks to do some thing called tension experience twice, so it must be great.

      Next thing I know I bought my ticket and I’m reading the diary…

      I get there with my dad, because he was visiting me at the time, and he was even more clueless but wanted to try something cool and new. He doesn’t smoke.

      A dude named Neil started talking to us right off the bat. Super friendly. I noticed there was wayyy too many people in my opinion. Then Neil and some girl started talking about how so and so left work and got in the car with a stranger… can you believe this, that. All kind of crazy sounding things to me, having not experienced anything. My dad literally looked me in the eyes and said “Tyson, this might be a cult… these people sure are into this for it to just be a play.” Then NPH shows up, joins in the conversation, and my dad had totally convinced me this was much like a haunted house where I am from which a church uses to recruit people, except he thought they were using celebs like NPH and DLB to make everything seem cool.

      I know I smelled super dank nugs in the parking lot, so in my group alone I know I wasn’t the only one!

      Off topic, but totally stoked about Heretic’s cannabis infused horror simulation this october.

    • #2727
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      @immortalconqueror Ah, you were there for NPH? Super jealous. I did go one toke over the line, sweet jesus, before I left the house but was straight by the time I got to the parking lot. Hour drive, High tolerance. Nada in the lot because I was afraid of being turned away.

    • #2730
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      Yeah. Had I not answered an unavailable call that was them wanting to reschedule, I’d never have met NPH. I tried to just let him be human… but his reveal in the red room was totally amazing. If you look in the foreword in the book, I’m the short bearded long haired (pulled back) guy standing next to him. When I saw my picture in the book I was pretty happy, as terrible as I look.

    • #2758
       Andrew Kasch
      Participant

      Are you high?!?! (Wait, I already know the answer to that question)

      At no point would I step into something that demanded all my wits on any sort of substance. My drug is one thing and one thing only: pure adrenaline.

    • #2763
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      Probably not the best thing to brag/admit openly, my dude.

      DLB/CS worked their ass off on this thing and it probably bums them out you went in under the influence of something.

      Whole point is to be present. My two cents.

    • #2764
       Megan
      Participant

      Yeah…honestly if I were the stage manager and I saw someone going through an immersive piece, interacting with performers drunk or otherwise under the influence I would kick them out. It’s a safety issue for the performers first and foremost, they’re putting themselves into really vulnerable positions frequently with closed one-on-one scenes with unknown audience members every night. And shit’s definitely happened in other shows, rumored to have happened several times in Sleep No More, to performers (there was a story that I personally can’t confirm about an audience member sexually assaulting a cast member of SNM). I’m not saying that you would do that at all, Tyson, but there’s no way of differentiating you from the people who would, so to be on the safe side don’t do that.

    • #2776
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      I’m not sure I agree with the above assessments. Yes, everyone is different… but I definitely got more out of the experience with my eyes a little squinty. (For ex: the clock room was TRIPPY AFFFFFFFFF)

      If you can’t handle your shit, you can’t handle your shit.

      He wasn’t asking who got hammered… it’s COMPLETELY different being high than drunk. Incomparable, even.

      I HIGHLY (hehe) doubt that someone who smoked a j in the parking lot would end the night in physical assault.

      ( & @thebuz I wouldn’t really be present without a J. >.< )

    • #2778
       Megan
      Participant

      Hazel, if you feel you can show up to immersive theater stoned, drunk, late, whatever – you go right ahead.
      It won’t be my show.

    • #2779
       Meghan Mayhem
      Participant

      You may recall that we all signed a waiver that stated in legal terms that you were not to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol during the experience, or risk expulsion? Yes?

    • #2780
       Megan
      Participant

      Also it should be noted that the title of this thread – just between friends – well, *nothing* in these forums is just between anyone. If you think the creators, the OOA (what’s left of them), Michelle & the OSDM don’t read everything you write, you are mistaken. 😉

    • #2781
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      Chill.

      (P.s. Weed is not a drug… its a plant that’s been used for thousands of years in ancient remedies around the world. Educate yourself.)

    • #2782
       Megan
      Participant

      I was working a production of The Sound of Music in 2000. An actor who was playing a minor role in the chorus went out back and got stoned, and when he came back and worked like that he missed being a part of a scene change (non-equity summer stock). Because he wasn’t “there” a piece of scenery fell on another actor. He was fired the next day.

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by Megan.
    • #2784
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      It sounds like you are stereotyping me based on your poor experiences with an individual who couldn’t handle their shit.

    • #2785
       Megan
      Participant

      I’m not stereotyping YOU at all. I don’t care one bit about you and what you do.
      I care that it’s not done around performers. This isn’t one poor experience. This one experience of many in a 20 year career in theater. And backstage we do not fuck around with this shit, regardless of who thinks they can handle it.

    • #2786
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      @hazelverse Everyone reacts differently to mind altering substances.

      My only opinion was that it’s best left to your private knowledge and not a public forum where the creators can read about it and potentially change course from anything planned with you.

      No judgement on people doing anything they choose to do. We’re all adults here. It’s just not something I find to be “braggable.” But that’s my personal opinion is all. 🙂

    • #2787
       Sean
      Moderator

      This is the type of topic that’s going to polarize people into two different camps.

      This is also the type of topic that isn’t going to change anyone’s mind, and will devolve quickly into demonizing the opposition.

      I have no formal power anymore, but If you want to debate, I’d kindly request that you debate it over PM. Bickering here will dilute the Lust narrative and damage the community. This isn’t the place for this type of fight.

    • #2788
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      caring is asharing

      Obviously, you do care.

    • #2789
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      I posted that before seeing @thegilded request to change method of discussion. I don’t care to continue this privately. I’ve said what I need to say.

      (But @thebuz I get where you are coming from on that.)

    • #2790
       Megan
      Participant

    • #2791
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      Thanks @thegilded. Once again you prove to be a better person than I.

      CREATORS MAKE @thegilded MOD AGAIN PLEASE.

      MAKE LUST GREAT AGAIN. SEAN WILL BUILD A GREAT WALL TO KEEP SPAMMERS OUT AND HE WILL GET OSDM TO PAY FOR IT.

    • #2792
       Mike
      Participant

      @thebuz: CREATORS MAKE @thegilded MOD AGAIN PLEASE.

      ^
      This

      #weneedaSINTRY

    • #2793
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      A third that Mod Motion.

    • #2795
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      HE’S GOING TO MOD EVERYWHERE. YOU’RE GOING TO BE SICK OF MODDING.

      MLGA

    • #2796
       Sean
      Moderator

      Vote for me. We would have the best human sacrifices. The best, like you wouldn’t believe.

    • #2797
       Megan
      Participant

      Tremendous sacrifices.

    • #2799
       Melissa
      Participant

      Vote for me. We would have the best human sacrifices. The best, like you wouldn’t believe.

      Well shit you have my vote then @thegilded (in all seriousness you were a great Mod)

    • #2800
       M.
      Participant

      I have my trust in @thegilded to be a mod again. Before reading his words of wisdom, I was ready to chime in. Thank you, Sean.

      And human sacrifices are always good. I’d be more than happy to offer up my ex husband.

    • #2801
       Andrew Kasch
      Participant

      The morality debate is rather silly at this point, I think. No need to go Mr. Mackey on anyone.

      I just think you’re doing yourself (and the creators) a disservice by going into an immersive show – especially one whose themes involve being present, in the moment, and fully engaged with the world around you – stoned or inebriated. It’s like texting in a movie theater… What’s the point of paying your hard earned money if you’re not watching the screen?

      (P.S. YES! Make Sean a mod!)

    • #2802
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      I clicked “delete” on all of my posts without successful results. It only leaves me one choice.

      I’ll just leave this here.

      Chi è in controllo, se non te stesso? Tutto il controllo è il controllo di sé. Qual è l’invidia di un uomo che non c’è, l’invisibile? Seek scomparso. Giudicare la scomparsa. Ma non diventare la scomparsa. Ciao.

    • #2803
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      really

      It’s actually not like that at all.

    • #2804
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      WE HAVE THE BEST COMMUNITY DON’T WE FOLKS? SPECTACULAR!

      MLGA!

      Ah man this is bringing me back to GKIII days.

    • #2805
       Bryan Bishop
      Participant

      SEAN! SEAN! SEAN! SEAN! SEAN! SEAN! SEAN!

      (co-sign on the thematic importance of being present)

    • #2806
       Lawrence Meyers
      Participant

    • #2807
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      SOMEONE GET THESE PEOPLE A COAT! TRUE PATRIOTS! THE BEST!

      THIS MOD TRAIN HAS NO BRAKES!

      MLGA

    • #2808
       Addison
      Participant

      SEAN FOR DAD

    • #2809
       Megan
      Participant

      Why Sean and not Melissa too???

    • #2810
       Melissa
      Participant

      @coryphella aw thank you that’s very kind of you to say. (((blush)))

    • #2811
       M.
      Participant

      @thecontroller I think we are coming to a consensus that @thegilded should be returned to his position as mod.

    • #2812
       Megan
      Participant

      @mkarrett I don’t want a home without Dad AND Mom….

    • #2813
       Megan
      Participant

      @thecontroller we MISS the days of TAKE THAT SHIT TO THE FORUMS!

    • #2814
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      Because he is campaigning and offering us quality sacrifices.

      Melissa, what you got? 🙂

      heh

    • #2815
       Addison
      Participant

      MELISSA FOR MOM

    • #2816
       Megan
      Participant

      SEAN FOR DAD MELISSA FOR MOM
      SEAN FOR DAD MELISSA FOR MOM
      SEAN FOR DAD MELISSA FOR MOM
      SEAN FOR DAD MELISSA FOR MOM
      SEAN FOR DAD MELISSA FOR MOM
      SEAN FOR DAD MELISSA FOR MOM

    • #2817
       Bryan Bishop
      Participant

      MOM! MOM! MOM! MOM! MOM! MOM! MOM!

    • #2818
       Nosnevets
      Participant

      SINtrys: Sean and Melissa
      LETS GO!

    • #2819
       Melissa
      Participant

      @hazelverse (or anybody) my platform is simple:

      (insert patriotic music here)
      I will bring you neurotic edits on topics that have typos. Because fak I can’t with typos.
      If you contact me and say “hey can you change this” by Anoch I’ll do that in a timely manner!
      We will make this forum great again because nobody should do this shit alone.
      Anoch bless everyone!
      **Insert bald eagle and cannon blast**

    • #2820
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      Shit, I didn’t want Tyson to delete his account.

      Tyson if you’re still reading these, no one was attacking you. People disagree from time to time here and it’s just like anything else, just gotta let it roll off your shoulders.

      I’m very sorry if you felt like you were ganged up on or that we weren’t welcoming.

      The last thing I or anyone else wants to do is chase people away from the cool stuff these experiences bring us.

      Hope you return and we can put this behind us.

    • #2821
       Sean
      Moderator

      I’m in complete agreement with @thebuz. I don’t think anyone here wanted you out, and I sure as fuck wasn’t blaming you or faulting you for anything. The topic is a good one and you had every right to post it, it was just getting a little heated and needed to get pulled back a little.

      Come back, bro.

      I miss you.

    • #2823
       Megan
      Participant

      I’m also in agreement with @thebuz and @thegilded Tyson and I’m sorry if that was because I got heated – my personal fuse is a millimeter short the past couple of months and I get too passionate too quickly, so I’m sorry.

    • #2826
       Julie R Goldstein
      Participant

      Hey guys! I was away for the weekend! What did I miss?

    • #2828
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      It has nothing to do with the participants or what anyone in particular said. Rather, my own ideology of disassociation with a very infantile attitude. They should really change where it says it will remove all of your posts if you deactivate/delete – it should say they will remain under anonymous. Above all, be warned, I am extremely selfish in my approach. Thanks for being so kind as to say you miss me when we haven’t met. You guys welcomed me very well and are all so far only kind.

    • #2833
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      But on the topic, in a much more mature attitude.

      Does anyone know what is up with the simulation Heretic is doing where they are infusing it with cannabis? I heard they were doing a beta test in march and april and launching in october….

      Does anyone have any experience with heretic? I have heard it is very physical which is why I’ve yet to venture down that road.

      I think maybe the person that started it wanted to maybe bring that up without just bringing up a different production company right off the bat. ; ) I wouldn’t know though because that’s like a totally different account, right?

    • #2837
       monkeymuffin333
      Participant

      @immortalconqueror You can pm me about Heretic.

      In general, the fact of the matter is that the entertainment industry is going to have to think very seriously about implementing marijuana policies in California, if they aren’t already. Any place that allows drinking will have to consider weed users and the ramifications of allowing them into their events/venues from a client perspective as well as liability.

      That being said, this forum is not specifically the arena for that. What should concern us is our ability to look away when the clientele aren’t unruly and our quickness to point when someone blunders into shit and pulls is out of the moment or worse. But who hasn’t encountered a shit-faced heckler, a noob greening the fuck out or just a dyed-in wool smartass? The bottom line is have fun and don’t steal from anyone else’s experience.

      *hands up and backs out of the room*

    • #2838
       Kimberly Stewart
      Participant

      @immortalconqueror said:

      Above all, be warned, I am extremely selfish in my approach.

      I always take note when someone says such things. Thank you kindly for the warning.

      On the topic of Heretic, many here have participated. To name just a small handful: @timsmyname, @rizzzoooooo, @amieexists, @taysavestheday. I’m sure if you hit any of them up in PM or Facebook or whatever, they’d be happy to discuss all the gory details.

      And, welcome back.

    • #2843
       Lawrence Meyers
      Participant

      @thebuz We know when you truly want someone out. Because you murder them.

      Even if he’s a midget. You FUCK.

    • #2844
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      I literally have just returned to this message (the one with the pledge of honor) and have been given so much hope for the future. Bless You, M. You’ve got me.

    • #2847
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      Meanwhile, Last night with Stephen Colbert: paranoia

      (Trending on youtube…. so on brand.)

    • #2851
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      Guys, I’m pretty sure my shadow started this thread.

    • #2859
       Sage
      Participant

      Not taking sides, just joining discussion. Nothing wrong with this thread at all, you were just asking an honest question. I can’t smoke pot before these kinds of things, as I would probably freak out…my husband on the other hand, would HAVE to, in order for him not to freak out…so different strokes (or tokes) right?

      But with some immersive theater you are encouraged to drink before hand (cash bar, Delusion) and in Sleep No More, you are definitely encouraged to drink at the Manderley Bar before, during, and after the show! I also remember a scene inside a “city bar” where actors were pouring real shots for certain audience members…

      Everyone can choose to experience art in their own way…no right or wrong way to do it, IMO.

    • #2860
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      .

    • #2861
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      clap

    • #2862
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      Someone messaged the person who started this thread to sum up exactly how I feel. OObviously those who partook before ascension and weren’t removed weren’t a problem. That simple. There were plenty of problems from people not under prescription influence. However, bluntly stating something that contradicts the waiver in a public forum isn’t the most productive idea as it creates liability.

    • #2863
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      Great observation and an argument I can get behind.

    • #2866
       Megan
      Participant

      Look. I am not judging people for drinking or smoking weed. I used to smoke. Whatever makes your socks go up and down, I don’t give a shit.

      There have been instances of sexual assault in immersive theater. Period. This is an art form that crosses a million liability issues and ethical issues and consent issues. If someone chooses to make a piece of art and allow people in inebriated, that’s their business. It’s not safe for the performers, and that’s not coming from a head-up-my-ass opinion, it’s coming from experience.

      Sleep No More (I believe) cuts you off at two drinks. Then She Fell serves small amounts of alcohol at key moments throughout. Of course different people are affected differently but their intention is people NOT get drunk. And I don’t think it’s smart for either of them to do it, but they do it.

      What I said, and stand by, is not in my show.

    • #2867
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      I’m not trying to be a nark… One person in my group whom will go unmentioned was obviously on molly or x… That shit isn’t cool. I mean I guess he kept his cool, but my Anoch, how the F would anyone handle that? He kept cracking his neck, rolling his eyes, and was literally grinding with the naked people in the red room after his confession….

      I heard that the shadow whom started this thread was seriously concerned about being exiled from people higher up than the participants. He left me a note saying he meant no disrepect to the art, and it was definitely a unintentional disrespect but for now he has to go work on his brand. ; )

    • #2868
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      Is ‘shadow’ the new ‘SWIM’? 🙂

    • #2871
       Megan
      Participant

      So @immortalconqueror are you saying that you are NOT the same person as the person who started this thread?

    • #2878
       Kyle Bown
      Participant

      @coryphella
      Not that is really matters, but I had 3-4 drinks at Sleep No More.

      Personally, I feel like it’s the show’s decision to make. Your recourse, as a consumer, is to decide if you can abide by their rules or not. This stuff really isn’t that hard.

    • #2880
       Megan
      Participant

      OK – wrong about the drinks at SNM.

      I stand by what I said.

    • #2882
       Sarah
      Participant

      Hey everyone! First time poster, long time follower. Had to chime in having had direct experience with many audience members at Sleep No More. The main goal was to balance between making money on selling drinks and keeping people in line. It was sort of case by case when I was there, and there were certainly more than a few times people took advantage or didn’t have the intended experience because of coming in already wasted. I will say in general the people who seemed to be on drugs, not alcohol, were significantly less combative or *dangerous,* sober people had their issues too, and many people who were drunk caused no problem at all. This is why a very experienced and wonderful security team was there.

      Anyways, seems like this is maybe never going to be solved and maybe was destined to start an argument, either way nice to “meet” you all and hoping for peaceful coexistence overall!

    • #2883
       Sarah
      Participant

      Aaand just realized I called myself “first time poster” having completely forgotten I posted in The Chosen Ones as well. Oops. Feels like so long ago.

    • #2899
       Lawrence Meyers
      Participant

      @scf272 Welcome! What evil lurks in the hearts of men….?

    • #2943
       Sarah
      Participant

      @larry Thank you. The evil lurking in the hearts of men? Don’t get me started 🙂

    • #2952
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      @immortalconqueror I definitely would love to know the answer to @coryphella question. Did you start this thread or no?

    • #2953
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      Also welcome @scf272!!

    • #3392
       Jackie
      Participant

      *eats popcorn* You shouldn’t go to these things altered. Why wouldn’t you want to be sharp? Why would you want to giggle at an inappropriate time? Why would you want your reflexes sluggish? It just seems so unappealing to read, pay, participate firing on half cylinders; and furthermore, I feel that way about illicit substances, alcohol, or even being too sick to participate.

    • #3395
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      I can understand the views here. However, if it’s a legit and necessary medication, it could lead to some issue that would not happen under a proper dose. Some people have way lessened anxiety, ptsd, and physical pain that could otherwise make such an event more comfortable and safe for them personally. Before you say “if you have such things you shouldn’t be doing such experiences” I say know yourself, take the effects of such things into consideration… and YOLO!

    • #3397
       Kimberly Stewart
      Participant

      Her is an excerpt from one of the various one-off events I attended with Tension. Interpret as you see fit.

      WAIVER image

    • #3413
       Megan
      Participant

      @electrichippo, thank you so much for posting that.

      Also fwiw, I talked last night with one of the original (“far superior Boston production”) VERY long-term SNM actors. She not confirmed the lack of safety for the actors aspect and what she felt was SNM’s producers being far too lenient by allowing drunk patrons in the door and forcing the actors to deal with them, she also said it flat-out wasn’t her job to care for them and she had to. This is her quote on sexual assault: “Assault within immersive theatre is unfortunately very common – and especially so if the production allows audience in that are intoxicated.”

      Again this is NOT passing judgement on what any one of US does in our spare time but about the risk to performers overall when audience members are allowed in the door intoxicated, and allowed to be their own judges as to whether they can handle themselves. Everyone thinks they can handle themselves, and then…some don’t. That doesn’t mean YOU can’t, but a producer/stage manager can’t tell you apart from the guy who actually can’t who is standing next to you.

      This is also not a judgement on Tension or its creators & stage management at ALL. Numerous people, including @electrichippo, have stated that they felt safe on Tension. The parameters of Tension have always been different from those of other immersives (like SNM, TSF, GP) because they are designed to provoke. If Tension thinks you’re sober enough to come in their door, that’s their call and I trust them.

      I say this, repeatedly, with a great deal of emotion, because I’m 40, I’ve been in professional theater working backstage since I was 21, I’ve watched people work drunk, work stoned, get hurt, or hurt others, or some combination of those things. And I’ve gone home late at night from shows and gotten stoned or drunk off my ass to relax. I have to attend safety seminars every year where I get to watch videos of people doing stupid shit and dying (awesome) and last year’s seminar included a story about an immersive!

      Also…Tension is good art (and in my opinion important groundbreaking art). When you go to it drunk or stoned, you’re like that guy at the show whose cell phone rings. You may not know this but the actors on stage 9 times out of 10 HATE that guy. They’ve worked their asses off, put their whole selves into this work and he can’t turn his phone off for two hours?

      • #3469
         Max Z
        Participant

        Not trying to jump into a semi-argument I’m not a part of, but I think this whole discussion brings up some really interesting ideas about art and spectatorship, which is something that I think about quite a bit, and which is something that immersive theater by its very design interrogates. For whatever it’s worth, I myself don’t smoke anything nor do I drink very often (maybe thrice a year), so for myself my knee-jerk reaction is to align with the “Why would you dull/alter your senses when viewing a piece of art?” camp. But as an English teacher, I’ve read and studied quite a bit about what goes into the process of reading (and I use that term in the broadest, most postmodern sense), and this discussion reminds me of this whole notion of reception theory, which talks, among other things, about how a viewer/reader brings everything with them to their side of an interaction with art, and that everything that the person brings affects their viewing of the art invariably. And most Reception Theorists maintain that not only is there nothing wrong with that, it’s kind of unavoidable.

        Now, I agree that it would probably be disappointing for some artists to hear that someone experienced their art in an altered state, because generally deep down I think artists want a sort of control over their viewer/reader. One professor I had called this a Hegelian model of readership, in which the viewer/reader more or less subjugates themselves to a text, reading in order to infer or discern a meaning that was allegedly imbued in it by the author. Another author I read (talking about theater specifically actually, I think it was Augusto Boal?) also explored this concept, talking about how texts are built around a mythical “Model Spectator”, who sees everything and experiences everything exactly the way the artist intends it to be seen and experienced.

        I’m rambling but I guess my main point is: It’s trite to say, but art is an interaction, and I don’t know if there’s any right or wrong way to approach art other than to have a personal interaction with it, and a personal interaction is bound to be unique in all cases because it’s built on a foundation of all of your unique life experiences/knowledge. With that in mind, though I would never do it myself, I wonder if–on a theoretical level–viewing a piece of art while in an altered state is ultimately much different than viewing a piece of art while in a bad mood, or reading a horror novel on a sunny beach, or seeing a play and missing the point that the author intended you to get because you got hung up on a personal memory association with one of the costume pieces, etc etc. It’s probably unfortunate for artists to hear, but a lot of theorists would argue that no piece of art has an inherent meaning or purpose, these things are created in the interaction of the spectator and the text: so why should going to it high/drunk be any more right or wrong than any other viewing experience?

        Now, ALL that being said, I think the practical safety concerns that have been brought up are very well-founded (@coryphella has examples based in experience after all). And, also speaking practically, the thought of showing up high to something that’s intimate or serious like a piece of immersive theater seems (to me, a drug outsider) almost tantamount to heckling, in a weird way. You’re intentionally putting yourself in a state that is variable, where you’re more likely to giggle at an inappropriate time and throw off an actor, more likely to think out loud or talk when you mean to whisper, etc. With Tension specifically, it feels in a way like you’d not be giving the show a fair shot to work its magic on you. But again, that’s just how it SEEMS to me as an outsider, I could be totally wrong, because I can’t theoretically or logically justify why I’d be against it.

        Anyway. There’s all that rambling. I love talking about this type of stuff, so forgive the novel.

        ALSO: Speaking of Heretic, how do you even get tickets to those shows? That website is a nightmare!

    • #3443
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      This is the topic that wont fucking die.

      This is my last contribution to it (she says, trying to convince herself).

      STONED and DRUNK are NOT THE SAME THING.

      You can’t be intoxicated by weed. It is not a drug OR a toxin. Stop believing and perpetuating propaganda and open a damn book (and by that I mean find reputable sources online, because this is 2017).

    • #3444
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      I find that the best way to make a topic go away is to continue talking about it.

    • #3445
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      See something, say something. I’m a sucker for pain.

    • #3485
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      Max, I really appreciate you for even attempting to consider another perspective rather than being either patronizing or judgmental. I definitely failed with my responses, but this is a seriously important issue for me.

      AS AN ARTIST (and having participated in stage productions since the age of 4), I don’t try to control the observer, but rather influence them- with the intention that I can garner some type of response.

      Granted, there is usually a response I am looking for… but as long as I get one, I’m generally satisfied.

      I’d like it to be VERY clear that this thread has ALWAYS been about WEED – not alcohol or other mind altering substances. It is UNFAIR to compare weed to those things. If you do ANY amount of scientific, unbiased research, you’d find that weed is literally the plant of life.

      I’m not going to argue about smoke inhalation, as there are many ways to get thc in to your system (think edibles, oils, capsules).

      IT IS TOTAL BS to talk about toking up like someone high on PCP or something.

      IN FACT: IT IS proven that weed stimulates certain areas of the brain that aren’t accessible without a catalyst. SO BOOM. Get off your fucking high horses (not directed to anyone specifically, just venting). Your experience is no more or less valuable than mine.

      Some people simply can not function without the plant, and REF– USE to give in to the big pharma poison machine.

      I get that this was brought up in a more recreational sense, but SO THE FUCK WHAT? Literally. WHO GIVES A SHIT. Mind your own damn business. Maybe if you did, it would be easier for you to be present… which incidentally, is the easiest thing in the world for me to do.

    • #3494
       Max Z
      Participant

      @hazelverse Well hey, I appreciate that there are a good number of spirited individuals in this community, but I didn’t mean to stoke any sort of flames of vitriol any more than they’ve already been stoked. Let’s not all of us get into the business of underestimating each other’s intelligence or research abilities or whathaveyou. I’m sure we’ve all come to our varying conclusions in intelligent, rational, and thoughtful ways, and just came away with differences of opinion. We’re all LUSTing together after all! (that sounds creepy).

    • #3495
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      Hahahaha.

      Experience has taught me otherwise, but I LOVE your optimism. 🙂

      <3

    • #3499
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      I just realized how that last half may have read to those who have no context of who I am.

      I really am not talking to anyone specifically, rather am cataloguing my response to an exasperating misconception and the framing in which it was presented. My frustration is in no way focused on any specific person, as I honestly am not keeping track of that sort of thing.

    • #3509
       Megan
      Participant

      I was going to walk away, but @maxzumstein mentioned Boal. 🙂 Next he’ll be talking about Artaud.

      I think philosophically there are lots of different ways to look at how to experience art, and some artists feel VERY strongly about how one should perceive THEIR art. And there isn’t anything wrong with that, either. James Turrell and Richard Serra have had their site-specific sculptures demolished rather than allow them to continue to exist when the site changes (new buildings are built, etc) because that wasn’t the way they were intended to be experienced. Patty LuPone has literally stopped the show if she hears a cell phone ring because she’s, you know, Patty LuPone. My point was really just that there is a certain amount of respect that should be given to the intended experience. You can choose to disregard it entirely and decide that you know better than the artist how to best experience their work, but perhaps first acknowledge they had something specific in mind that didn’t involve what you wanted?

      Really my entire point is safety safety safety. We. Do. Not. Work. Backstage. On. Drugs. We just don’t. And once the audience crosses the fourth wall they are close enough to the actors and the set and everything else that we need them to be as in control as possible. That sentence is in that waiver we signed for a reason – liability. There are serious liability issues in immersive theater. Most people don’t have the technology to have a camera in every room and someone watching all the time like Tension did, and in those intimate scenes you really ARE sometimes alone with performers. It’s not about insulting YOU or what you like to smoke or anything else. It’s about covering asses. Obviously if you’re taking a prescription drug that’s a different situation. And mostly, honestly, all I’m saying is that as a maker, as a creator, someone who just snagged two more collaborators for her own immersive piece set to launch in hopefully 2019 after workshopping in 2018…if you’re smoking pot, you’re not coming in my show. (Though I have a feeling my show isn’t up your alley anyway.)

    • #3515
       Sage
      Participant

      Obviously this silly argument is over, but I think we should all keep in mind that the OP opened up and shared a funny little story about himself and his dad (thinking it was a real cult, lol!) and his experience. He seemed to be looking for some camaraderie and probably regrets doing so because of the reaction it caused. The OP has seemed agitated ever since. This does make me a little sad and more cautious… Hopefully this won’t happen again. 🙁

    • #3520
       Tim Redman
      Participant

      Why would you buy a ticket, and then put yourself in a space where you’re not fully there? Its hard enough to process some of this stuff stone cold sober. It’s also disrespectful to to everybody around you. This drunk girl at Creep LA ruined the whole show for our group. I’ve seen first hand how one simple trip can land somebody’s eyeball into a sharp corner. It’s just not worth it and I’m pretty sure Noah Sinclair doesn’t have time for it either.

    • #3528
       Max Z
      Participant

      @coryphella

      Oh friend, you are after my own heart with Artaud namedrop! I’ll definitely find a way to talk about Artaud on here one day.

      Spot on with the comments re: meeting the creators halfway, that’s basically what I was getting at in my final paragraph; it feels like you’re not really giving them a chance to work their stuff. Additionally, I think it’s also worth noting that most reader response theory, though I’ve extrapolated it out to be applicable to all art in my comments, is actually usually talking about reading written texts. It’s unfair not to mention, I think, that theater, and especially immersive theater, is a very different reading/viewing experience than the solitary act of reading a book or a poem, and perhaps merits some different consideration on its own unique practices. I’ve taken more classes concerned with plays/drama than the average English major, but I’m still an English major, and I’m probably not as well-versed as I could be in how reader response applies to the field of theater. But I mean, yeah, come to think of it, theatergoing is by and large a community act, even if you don’t know the people you’re in the audience with, and maybe there’s something to that, theoretically. As for the practical stuff, I think your experience speaks for itself.

      P.S.
      On the first readthrough I thought you said you weren’t going to allow anyone who was smoking HOT into your show

    • #3549
       Megan
      Participant

      @maxzumstein My last Artaud-related experience had me leaving the theater cursing and just generally REALLY pissed off that I was made to sit through two hours of something and then watch the entire audience freaking STAND for it at the end while I sat there like YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME THIS WAS NOT WHAT MEANT BY THEATER OF CRUELTY.

      Anyway yes, theater – especially immersive theater – isn’t solitary, it’s communal, which is an important point to make. A lot of audience members/participants in immersive theater seem to be in it for themselves and forget that shared experience. It’s honestly why I’ve sworn off Sleep No More after my third trip, I don’t really feel like being in a building with 400 stampeding elephants all starring in their own first-person shooters where everyone else is an NPC. It’s difficult when people want their moment, their experience, their one-on-one, to forget that there is an over-arching narrative/experience/work of art that we are all there for. Sometimes us wanting to experience things on our terms gets in the way of others’ experiences.

    • #3556
       JakeO
      Participant

      Let’s beat a dead horse.
      First, this is about respect. Respecting the rules of the show, the creators and the performers. If it says on the waiver you sign that you are not to be under the influence of alcohol or other controlled substances, this should be respected. It’s an insurance matter. You’re putting yourself and the creators at risk by not adhering to the contract you are signing. Every show is different, and can have different rules, this show specifically said not to be under the influence.

      Second, as others have said, a major theme in Tension was to be present. No matter what your tolerance is, when you consume a substance that alters your natural state, you are not entirely present.

      While marijuana is almost legal, it will still be up to the show to state whether they want people to attend who are under the influence of marijuana. It will be the same as it is with alcohol. Again, this is something that will be worked out with insurance providers. If you choose to not follow the contract you sign, you will be putting the show at risk.

      I agree with what has been said above. We are all adults, presumably, and can decide to follow or break the rules if we choose. But if you choose to break the rules, it’s definitely not something you should brag about openly on the website of the company who’s rules you broke. Just saying.


      @timsmyname
      I’m not sure I agree with you about Noah. He did advocate doing lines at your kids elementary school and does seem to advocate not following rules

      • #3586
         Tim Redman
        Participant

        My thought, @jakeo, is that rules are made to be broken except when you’re in Noah’s house.

    • #3559
       JakeO
      Participant

      @coryphella I definitely agree with you about sleep no more. Your experience sounds exactly like mine. In fact, I was kind of guilty of this behavior myself when the show first started. Then I realized that the people acting selfishly running around all over the place trying to push themselves on actors looked silly. So I decided to hang back more and let the scenes unfold naturally without trying to control or force the story.

      I have started noticing this pushy behavior more and more with immersive theater. I think as it becomes increasingly popular, it will be even more of a problem. In small groups, it can take just one person behaving badly to ruin a show for everyone.

    • #3563
       Megan
      Participant

      @jakeo – Yep, I was SO lucky to be able to go to SNM before it exploded in popularity, and wandered around almost empty rooms, and actually wandered into a one-on-one encounter because no one else was there when Hecate needed someone! The mechanics of it fascinate me. Then She Fell has a much different approach with a smaller, easier to control audience BUT they’re on rails the whole time. Ascension is fascinating because it’s difficult to tell where it falls between the two. I felt like I was entirely on rails my first time through Ascension, and then later suspected that I wasn’t and just allowed myself to be.

      The audience thing has me thinking that the project I’m conceiving is going to be open to only ten people at a time. Don’t worry, I’m not interested in making money. 😉

      • #3565
         JakeO
        Participant

        @coryphella

        yeah, I think you’re right about tension. It lived somewhere in between being on rails and free roaming. I think as an audience member, you definitely got rewarded for taking the indoctrination journey before the show. Because many of us had moments and things written specifically for us. However, I did feel like my ability to make choices within the shows was minimal. And I definitely did not feel like I had the ability to wander around wherever I wanted like sleep no more.

        making money with immersive theater seems nearly impossible, especially with individual or small group shows and limited runs. But it’s for the love of art! ?

        Can’t wait to see what your show will be, even if I won’t be able to attend.

    • #3596
       Kevin
      Participant

      @jakeo @coryphella I think you’re both getting at an interesting tension (no pun intended) in immersive theater. You have to get participants to walk some kind of line between “fortune favors the bold” and don’t be a dick (to both participants and the actors), often without actually telling the people attending where that line is. Sleep No More obviously wants you exploring the space and finding cool scenes/stuff, but (at least when I went) can end up with the audience caring only about their own experience.

      Then that carries over to moving through the experience too. My first time through Tension, the way I was moved through the performance definitely felt similar Then She Fell. It was a much more hectic on rails experience, but, at the time it wasn’t clear if I could alter the narrative I was on. Even now, I’m still not sure. The second time through, I did feel like I had a clearer idea of some actions that could be taken, but was still unsure. I met Samson in the side processing room and he eventually told me to follow him out of the room. When we walked past Simon, he said they I needed to wait for the others to finish their processing and stay. Later, I wondered what would have happened if I’d said I wanted to go with Samson. Then on the other side of that, we solved the Red Room that time and tried to open the door, but it was being held shut. We got enough people to lean on it to get it open and I got a death glare from one of the handlers on the other side. So wasn’t sure if they were screwing with us or really didn’t want us in that room yet. It would be nice if they could kind of indicate what you could do, but I understand why they can’t.

      Wherever that line is, it’s probably even more difficult to draw in something like Tension. Like, if I’d seen Simon get punched I’m not sure if I would have recognized that as something that wasn’t supposed to happen.

    • #3637
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      @sfire8 You are a rainbow.

      Everyone else: YOU SOUND JUDGY AS FUCK.

      We get it. YOU think it’s a safety issue and BLAH BLAH BLAH.

      BUT did you EVEN LISTEN to the panel where DLB and CS literally talked about writing scenes for people and taking great joy in messing with people through out the shows?

      YOU run your shows however you want and I PROMISE not to come, but STOP making THIS EXPERIENCE about your preferences. BECA– USE THAT’S LITERALLY WHAT’S HAPPENING.

      You are sitting there acting like a martyr for a cause that doesn’t really need you. ALL ART is different. The way we experience art is PERSONAL. Stop trying to police our adventure.

      From what I’ve heard (and also, because I was actually there for this ex), most physical assaults/complications (ie: Damien getting suckered in the face) were the fault of SOBER participants that couldn’t handle the experience.

      Now, I agree that coming on here and bragging about getting shitfaced before a show could pose liability issues. I know we signed a waver. BUT YOUR DEFINITIONS ARE INCONSISTENT WITH MINE AND YOU CAN’T LEGALLY PROVE THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND I AM WRONG (As weed IS LEGAL in CA – for medical and recreational use, and we were ONLY TALKING ABOUT WEED).

      PLEASE stop trying to dominate our experience and our responses to them, because YOU are ruining OUR experience – and neither one of our experiences is more valuable than the others.

    • #3638
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      Now, Like Sage said:

      Someone was trying to come on here and relate. You literally butchered their attempted and turned it in to something nasty. You literally made a member quit the forum. You are responsible for that. This is not community.

    • #3640
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      (By the way, start listening at 12 min during the panel to hear what I’m referencing. At 14 min Daren literally talks about an interaction with a processor in which AN INDIVIDUAL had to PERSONALLY CONNECT with in order to unlock a certain interaction. He goes on to say:

      “Some of them had A and B stories, like if you were drunk, if we knew you had been drinking, it would activate this side story- if we thought you were really shy and bashful, it would activate this side story…”

      So your whole “think about the creators” logic is unfounded. )

    • #3641
       M.
      Participant

      @hazelverse


      @hazelverse
      Have you ever read the actual waiver or do you just sign it blind? Because every waiver I have signed for an immserive experience has clearly stated that you are not to be under the influence of any substance including alcohol (which as you know is legal). So don’t give me the bullshit that weed is “legal” therefore it makes it ok to come high as fuck. Because I believe Tyson’s words were he was super baked.

      The creators do have a right to tell you not to take anything when you enter their experience. They do this to protect themselves, the actors, the participants and their creation. I can’t imagine going through Tension, Heretic or Blackout on anything even alcohol. You need to be present completely especially the ones I mentioned because they fuck with you physically and mentally. You walk in blind to an experience and have no idea what you’re getting yourself into. Being under the influence, could be a huge liability.

      You come onto the boards and post an opinion there is a chance people will disagree. It’s not about being welcoming or not. If Tyson left, that’s on him no one else. How dare you try to put that blame on other people here. He said something that a lot of people disagree with, I’ll go as far as the creators would as well.

      My issue with Tyson isn’t that he posted an opinion. An opinion I disagreed with but kept silent about because it didn’t have to do with the narrative. My issues with Tyson is that he attacked the very people who planned a Tension get together for him. And that shows no class, in my opinion. He attacked my friends and I will protect them fiercely as fuck.

      You want a divided community? You’ll get one. You’ve always talked shit about how we as a community are not welcoming. We’re not welcoming to those who are careless with their actions and who fuck with what we’ve built. We’re not welcoming to those who are assholes. But, we are very welcoming to new people who are genuinely authentic and real, how have a true love, respect, and passion for this community.

      Judgy as fuck because we don’t agree with someone going into an intense experiment inebriated!?! Then, I guess I’m judgy as fuck because I respect the creators too much to not be present 100%. There’s a time and a place for things. Immersive experiences, IMO, are not one of them. Some people just need to grow the fuck up.

      And if you disagree with me that the creators don’t care, I’d love for you to walk up to the creators and see their reaction to you thinking it’s fine to be high going through.

    • #3642
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      I do. I do think you are judgy as fuck. And I also think that there are a few sour grapes that ruin the whole bunch for a LOT of “newbies.”

    • #3643
       Blondie
      Participant

      Ok. Guys. This thread needs to be allowed to die with dignity. People have a variety of opinions on the matter – all of which I feel have been adequately expressed. No-one is going to change their mind on such a clearly emotive issue. To be perfectly honest, it’s doing my head in to come onto forum and see all of this. You guys know me, you know I’m not being a b*tch. Enough damage has been done already. Just agree to disagree and PLEASE let’s move on…

    • #3644
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      <3 I’m with you @blondie . Donezies.

    • #3645
       M.
      Participant

      Sorry @blondie I adore you and these are my last words

      You have never met me @hazelverse but you have expressed your opinion about me when you first joined Tension. You misunderstood a single reply to your first post last year as an attack when it wasn’t at all. I think the drugs may make you paranoid, maybe delusional because you seem to have an inability to comprehend an attack vs advice vs an opinion.

      Calling me judge as fuck is like the pot calling the kettle black. Get off your pedestal.

    • #3646
       thehazelverse
      Participant

      My opinion is based on your bitchiness through out the forums. I am not judging you. I’m appraising you.

    • #3647
       Anonymous
      Inactive

      FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY SOMEONE DESTROY THIS CANCER OF A THREAD.

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