A Personal Visit from Joyce on 8/23/17

This topic has 70 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 9 months ago by Shaun.

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    • #22799

      Earlier tonight, there was a photo posted of a briefcase with pictures of me visible inside it. (@mike was also visible in one, also) One of those photos dates all the way back to my initial consultation appointment for The Tension Experience last year.

      As that photo was posted, I was receiving a personal visit from Joyce. She wanted to discuss several topics, including what if any information I might be able to share with her about Kristin Brown, aka @creepsociety. I let Kristin know of these questions since she is visiting, but I also wanted to let everyone know that Joyce seems to be looking for information on people.

      I am going to step away for a little while… later tonight I will offer more details on the visit and other lines of questioning put to me.

    • #22800

      Well that is troubling.

      I am glad that you are safe, @russell.

    • #22801

      I can’t watch your periscope right now but are you going into more detail on what @joycecarlberg brought up?

    • #22802

      Tell her we tried to be patient. ?

    • #22803

      Periscope link: https://www.periscope.tv/w/1vOxwOYWjqoxB

      He didn’t go into much detail but implied he might write an update later tonight on the forums.. or at least what he feels he can post. He asked if he could record the encounter and was denied. He said the picture he posted was of some snacks that were shared with presumably Joyce.

    • #22804
       Taylor Winters

      Eager to hear who she wanted more information on.

    • #22805

      Why hi there, Joyce. A month of silence and now a visit?
      Also, why did Joyce feel the need to get info from one of us? Why couldn’t she call Kristen and ask directly (which I guess she sort of did by inquiring as to when she’d be in town)?

    • #22806
       Andrew Kasch

      Glad you’re okay, @russell! Can’t wait to hear more details.

      There is definitely a concentrated effort from people to gather intelligence on others.

      Could Joyce and Mason be in cahoots? Or are they on opposite sides, waging an “Info War?” (Sorry for the bad analogy)

    • #22807
       Lauren Bello

      There is definitely a concentrated effort from people to gather intelligence on others.

      Almost as if they’re trying to make us…complicit…in sharing info on each other.

    • #22808

      @daela Not that I’m advocating we all share shit on each other but the only reason I’m here is because @kasch told them I was his best friend and they reached out to me on twitter.

    • #22809

      Do you consider yourself very much of an expert on @creepsociety, @russell? Did she give you any reason why she darkened your doorstep specifically? I have to question your strategy here, @joycecarlberg. You want Russell to give you personal information about someone so you show Russell a briefcase full of information you’ve gathered about him? Why should he do your job for you, especially if your posturing suggests you’re already so good at it? And when did dirt digging become your job? I guess I’m glad to hear she’s back in the game at all, it looks like Joyce joined the rest of Europe in taking the entire month of August off.

    • #22810
       Lauren Bello

      You want Russell to give you personal information about someone so you show Russell a briefcase full of information you’ve gathered about him?

      I’m very curious what her purpose was in showing us the briefcase. Why show how thorough your files are, right on the heels of files being scandalously leaked? You’d think her PR move would be to claim they only keep names and phone numbers. How is this good PR? Was this to intimidate us?

    • #22811

      I think the briefcase is there to prove she means business. There’s a sense of “you’re in this too deep” so there’s no backing down now!

    • #22816

      So then we’re assuming this is blackmail? Does @russell know there’s something in those files he doesn’t want made public? He provides info on Kristin to keep his under wraps? If so, classy move, @joycecarlberg, where do I order the t-shirt?

    • #22817
       Bryan Bishop


      that is all.

    • #22818

      And when did dirt digging become your job?

      She’s part of HCDI, which presumably has access to all of the data OSDM has.

      She’s also kind of a PR person for them (and whatever she was doing with Jenna), so she’s been shown to get her hands dirty in a variety of ways. Whatever the case, she was doing community outreach of a sort with Russell and then trying to get data on Kristin.

      I am very curious about why she showed Russell the data they had on him though. Could have been blackmail, could have been just to confirm that they’ve definitely got files on all of us, could have been something else?

    • #22819


      So then we’re assuming this is blackmail?

    • #22820

      The fact that Joyce has Russell’s complete file likely means that the copies Noah and @meghanmayhem took from the warehouse on May 1st were either not the only copies, or that the only copy of the files were returned to Horace and the OSDM. If they were not the only copies, the Horace’s call to Meghan asking “where his files were” makes little sense, so we can reasonably guess that the files were returned.

    • #22821
       Robert Fuller

      I don’t think it’s blackmail. Presumably, everything in that file is stuff Russell voluntarily divulged, so unless the OSDM is taking pictures through his bedroom window, I find it hard to believe that they have anything on him that he’d be desperate to keep secret.

      The photo of the briefcase just seems like a power move to me. A way to show that she’s in control.

    • #22822

      Some quick thoughts before I mind vomit all over this thread with the most detailed description I can recall…

      , no I don’t consider myself an expert on @creepsociety. The reason these questions might be directed at me is that I did publicly stated today I was going to make an effort to see her in person. (But, hey, others did the same.) There is the connection that she and I went through Ascension together. Maybe they were simply fishing to see if we had made a connection that had grown deeper since that event?

      @daela @shaun @buz and… others… 😉
      Everyone seems to be pointing toward the amount of information they have gathered and I think that is key. I do not think this show of “power” of posting the picture of my files indicates blackmail, necessarily. Although everything there is info I did divulge, there are definitely a few things I was honest about that I would prefer they not put on public display. I did reveal some deep fears and triggers, even a bit of sexual info… it’s not necessarily damning, but could subject me to ridicule or manipulation by others.

      I don’t see what happened to me tonight as dirt digging and you hit upon why… as we learn more, I think this sort of meeting is part of her job. I think I am seen as a misfire after the iConfidant event and if they did not succeed in “on-boarding” me (as they say in the corporate world) in that moment… this is the woman who has the data that might reveal why. This whole thing with me tonight could be research on to how to better manipulate ALL OF US. (Not just me.)

    • #22823

      Here is a breakdown of this meeting as best as I can recall…

      This took me by surprise. Completely.

      I have not been around for two reasons. Health issues, which some of you may know, but there was something bigger. The recent focus on The System left me feeling out in the cold since I truly do not see myself as potential for that and some of the tactics being displayed left me… disconcerted.

      I missed a No Caller ID call during a work meeting today. An hour later, I received another. Upon answering, a lovely female voice with a slight accent asked, “Russell, do you know who this is?” Honestly, I did not.

      She informed me it was Joyce and she had reached the conclusion that she and I needed to talk… tonight. She said it was imperative. After some arranging of schedules, I agreed to be at home… because she said I needed to be in a “quiet place,” I assumed she was going to call and reveal some information to me.

      Much to my surprise, at 7:30 my phone rang, moments later I escorted four people into my home.

      First to enter was Joyce, I indicated she was free to sit anywhere she pleased… she paused for a moment then said, “Now I am entering,” and proceeded to sit on my sofa and open up her briefcase on my coffee table. During stiff chit-chat, my recent hospital visit was acknowledged and Joyce mentioned she had also been away recently.

      Following her were a young man, fair complexion and sandy brown hair with a boyish face and charming smile. He indicated I needed to lift my arms, he patted me down for security reasons. Third was an attractive woman wearing a black coat… underneath I caught a glimpse of a maroon dress. She did not speak. Fourth, was Otis. He was the only one who accepted my offer of a handshake, but he introduced himself very softly as “John, I play Otis.” He mumbled this and I hope I heard that correctly. He said it after the handshake and as he was walking into the living room. He sat on the arm of my sofa. Young Man stood by my television, young woman hovered near me.

      I offered food and drink if they wanted it, they refused. Joyce insisted I sit in a chair nearby so we could begin. When I sat down, the Young Woman in the black coat began caressing me flirtatiously. This continued during the entire conversation.

      The questions began. (I asked if I could record or take notes, the request was flatly refused… I am remembering this as best I can, people! Haha!)
      Joyce had a picture of me on a clipboard and it seemed to be attached to several papers. (The picture was a vacation picture from several years ago that was used once last year during Tension.)

      She asked if there was any color or noise that produced feelings of deep aggression or anger in me. She consulted the paperwork and then quoted to me a response from my original Tension questionnaire. This is going to sound weird people… “Improvisational jazz causes feelings of extreme anxiety whenever I hear it.” I explained this was true to the degree that if I hear improvisational jazz as muzak in a store, I usually leave the store. We discussed this quirk a bit, then moved on. (I think she found it a bit amusing, actually.)

      She then asked if I knew a Kristin Brown aka @creepsociety, if I knew who she was. I explained I had met Kristin at “Ascension” last year, we shared our first times through. Not satisfied, Joyce wanted to know everything I could tell her about Kristin. I took the tactic of trying to lead Joyce into divulging what type of information she was on the hunt for… “Well, I believe she lives in Texas… I believe she has a… podcast… a blog, maybe?” The tactic failed. Joyce did not let me know if this was the type of information she was looking for or not. She filled in no blanks.

      Around this time, the young man asked where my kitchen was, I pointed him in the direction of it. For a few minutes of the conversation, I heard him rustling around my kitchen. He reappeared a bit later, eating a yogurt he had found in the fridge. He spent the rest of the conversation devouring the yogurt. (Later at The Escondite, @rizzzoooooo theorized this was “Fluffer Nutter Guy,” based on his fondness for nourishment.) For the record, he chose Key Lime flavored yogurt. The man has good taste.

      I must admit… I do not recall of the questioning, but I will do my best with what followed. I want to mention that during this entire conversation, the young woman in the black coat stood very close to me, continuing to caress my neck, back, arms and shoulders. It also felt rather caring, actually.

      Joyce asked why I had recently stated I have felt “disconnected.” She also wanted to know what it would take to make me feel “connected.” I said I actually wasn’t sure of the answer to that.

      A phone began to ring, obviously the young woman’s and she paused her caressing to answer it. This happened a couple of times… it seems she was having trouble getting a signal in my home.

      Joyce expressed some dismay that I did not feel “connected.” She explained that efforts had been made to connect with me and I needed to offer an answer as to what could make me feel a connection. (I began to wonder if she meant to the Community as a whole… or to anyone specific.)

      The young woman began to dial her phone, obviously attempting to reach someone. She said, “hello… hello?” several times. Meanwhile, Joyce mentioned that, indeed, they had specifically tried a familiar voice in an attempt to reach me emotionally. When the woman seemed to get an answer on her phone, Joyce confirmed with her that she had gotten through to someone. The woman passed the phone to Joyce, who listened for a moment before passing the phone to me, informing me there was someone she wanted me to speak with.

      When I put the phone to my ear, very faintly I heard a female voice. It was not immediately familiar to me because it was so weak. I do not know if that was a result of the signal problems, or if I was picking up on some level of tension in the woman’s voice.

      After the woman said my name a couple of times, I recognized the voice of Sabrina Kern, who I had interacted so much with last year as “Addison.” To be honest, I became flustered. There is an emotional connection to this person, perhaps I have forgotten just how much until this phone call. My emotions led me to get confused and some of this call is jumbled in my head – the rough reception did not help!

      It was tough to hear, but she expressed similar sentiments as to what was expressed at the iConfidant event… she seemed upset that and felt she had “disappointed me at least twice.” I stated SHE had not disappointed me, but she was insistent. She asked if I felt I was being mocked somehow. “No,” I replied, “if someone thinks I feel that, they are misinterpreting my reaction. I don’t feel I was being mocked.“ She followed that with several comments about connection… ending with the idea that I was one of the few things she felt a strong connection to now.” She also asked what it would take to form a connection again… the phone reception seemed to worsen at this point. I know she asked that question again and I asked if I had to provide some answer right now, in this instant. As I said, I was feeling a bit overwhelmed with all of this and I was shocked by her comment about her feeling I was one of few things she was connected to now. (Is she feeling disconnected? Is her return not working out the way she thought it would? Can I help her… in some way I was unable to help her last year? My mind was spinning with these thoughts as she spoke.) The line went silent and I spoke her name several times. The phone beeped to indicate the call had dropped.

      During this entire scene, Otis sat on the arm of the sofa, his head and shoulders slumped forward. He could have been sleeping. Joyce turned to him, “Otis… Otis!!! Tell Russell what happens. Tell Russell what happens when the Darkness comes.”
      Otis seemed a bit flustered but managed to say, “The Darkness? Oh, the Darkness.” He paused and looked at me, raising his hands dramatically. “When the Darkness comes… it brings a whole heap o’ trouble with it!”

      Joyce urged him to continue, “Tell Russell what brings the Darkness. What brings it?”
      He seemed to get a bit agitated. Still looking directly at me he emphatically said, “The paaaiiiiinnnn. The pain brings the Darkness.”

      She dismissed Otis and told him to wait by the car. He seemed to drop any sign of upset at this point, almost like he wanted to make a connection with me. He told me he had a funny story he wanted to share about a friend and some bullfrogs, but Joyce rudely said, “Shut the fuck up, Otis, and go.” (I found this upsetting and in retrospect, I wish I had asked Joyce to leave my home at this point. The rudeness was uncalled for but I was so rattled, I did not think to stand up for him… he was a guest in my home and I let this unfold. I am disappointed in myself for not speaking up. I feel I owe an apology to Otis.)

      Joyce asked me if I knew where she had been, since she has been gone for a bit. I said no. She asked if I had ever gone on a “company retreat.” I have, for a couple of days. She wanted to know what I thought of the experience. “I enjoyed the camaraderie, but I did not enjoy the exercises we had to do,” I replied. She smiled and said she could relate to my opinion. Apparently, she has been gone to some sort of “retreat” for a few weeks and had a similar response. She explained she had been made to relive some of the worst decisions in her life over and over again. (I think that is the way she put it, I was feeling a bit spent by this point, I admit.) She asked why I thought she might be interested in doing such a thing. When I replied I was not sure why she did it, she looked directly at me and said, “I asked to do it.”

      Joyce came and stood by my chair, opposite of the young woman. She looked intently at me and began to theorize that maybe it’s not the emotional approach needed anymore… maybe that is not the way to connect with me. At that moment, the young woman stepped directly in front of me. She opened her black coat, revealing a beautiful, very low-cut maroon dress underneath. It was form fitting and revealing of her upper body. She stepped forward, placing herself between my legs. Leaning forward, her breasts came very close to my face. She moved her body downward, her face coming into slight contact with mine. Leaning in, I thought she was going to attempt to kiss me… Joyce suddenly thrust some papers forward, clearly stopping anything that was about to happen. The young woman backed away. Joyce dismissed her and the young woman left.

      Joyce began gathering things, obviously preparing to leave.

      I asked if I could make a point, Joyce seemed open… slightly. I pointed out that I had been asked a question on the phone and never had the opportunity to answer. She did not seem concerned and turned to leave. “Oh, by the way,” I said, “emotion is the way.” She heard me, but offered no response. (To be honest, I just stated that to reinforce the connection Sabrina asked for on the phone. I don’t know the best way for a connection to happen with me right now. I sincerely appreciate their willingness to try. But, my instinct was to serve Sabrina’s needs in that moment.) Joyce left.

      This left the young man and I alone together. He crossed the room and handed me the empty yogurt container and spoon. “Next time,” he said, “how about some pistachios or something around? I’m trying to do that whole Paleo thing.” He headed toward the door as I replied, “Dude, I had some walnuts and almonds, I would have given you some!” He left, closing the door behind him.

      A few minutes later, though, he returned. When I greeted him, he said, “Words, words, words, Russell. You’ve got our words.” I said I don’t understand, I also asked if I could have his name. He shook his head and said, “maybe later.” Once he stepped inside again, he explained he just needed “the words.” For the first time, I noticed there were a few sheets of paper left behind on my coffee table. Apparently, Joyce forgot to put these into her briefcase as she was preparing to leave. He picked up the pages with a bit of a smile and waved them at me. “I didn’t even notice them,” I said. I wished him a good night as he walked out my door.

      Approximately 20 minutes after this ended, my phone rang. When I answered, it was Joyce. “Russell, I think we are becoming fast friends!” My response was very honest, “Well, Joyce I think you are the most interesting woman I have met in quite some time.” She chuckled.

      I am in an awkward position here, for I do not want to betray a trust @joycecarlberg might have placed in me. She asked if I had ever in my life done… something… specific. She did not allow me to answer the question, she just continued speaking. (I think she already knows the answer to the question. Yes, I have done what she wanted to know about.) Cryptically, she indicated that I may be using this skill soon. My guess is that she will be involved in whatever this means.

      Joyce also suggested that if I have ever cared about someone… that I focus on that emotion.
      So, the evening was almost completely centered on my lack of emotional connections in my life currently. To be honest, my recent health scare has brought similar thoughts to the forefront of my life recently. I was asked what I need… and I may not know what the answer is, honestly.

    • #22824

      Wow! Holy shit wow!

      What a night @russell!

      A few thoughts… the young woman in the maroon dress… red hair? Or light brown? My money is on Nicole.

      And if other guy was fluffer nutter dude than Joyce came with the Investors.

      This is a very unique and interesting place to be pulled Russell. I look forward to seeing where this leads.

    • #22825

      WOW. That’s incredible, @russell.

      But…the file they’re showing is all information that you (and @mike) gave to them. There is nothing there, unless I’m seeing it wrong, that they went out of their way to obtain on their own. Am I correct? If she’s trying to scare you with this I don’t see how she could. Furthermore asking YOU for information on @creepsociety implies she has none herself. I’m not sure how impressed I am at HDMI’s data acquiring abilities.

      I *am* fascinated by the apparent/possible connections between everyone and everything, though – John/Otis, Joyce, OSDM, Horace, Noah, and the Resistance. I’m still pretty certain that the Resistance isn’t as separate and opposed to everything as it would like us to believe. I do think that Joyce doesn’t entirely know what’s going on, though, and that lack of control is driving her nuts.

    • #22826
       Bryan Bishop

      Wow, this is an incredible write-up, @russell.

      Definitely curious to find out if the young woman had red hair – as @thebuz said, this sounds like Nicole all over the place.

      Otis making the “John” delineation clear… another peek behind the curtain? This certainly makes John sound like an actor playing a role, rather than somebody brainwashed into thinking they were that role (like what happened with Sabrina).

      And once again we see Joyce doing what she does so well: trying to ensure people are connected to, and engaged by, The Experience.

      As for her disappearance and the company retreat… I’m not sure what conclusions to draw from that. I certainly hope this means @joycecarlberg will be active in everyone’s lives once again.

      But I’m also struck by the idea of reliving the worst decisions in one’s life over and over. A hint of what’s to come for each of us?

    • #22827

      @russell that was an excellent write up it’s as if I was there!

      Since the contents of the briefcase weren’t actually used maybe it was just a prop to try and attain the emotional connection you once had.

      Similar to phone call with Sabrina and the caressing Young Woman. All tests to see what makes you tick and what gets a response out of you.

      Do you think they meant for you to read the words left behind?

    • #22828

      I can see why, if they’re looking for a sure fire way to get you to emotionally reconnect @russell, they would attempt to utilise Sabrina. It makes me sad to hear that both of you are feeling disconnected for whatever reasons. Certain events in life definitely make a person turn introspective for a while. I hope you find your answers soon. And I hope Sabrina is ok, wherever she is ❤

    • #22829

      But I’m also struck by the idea of reliving the worst decisions in one’s life over and over. A hint of what’s to come for each of us?

      What you don’t already do this to yourself Bryan? I thought we were twins. 😉

      I don’t know, I am skeptical once again of @joycecarlberg. I did agree to help her but that was nearly 6 weeks ago and I haven’t heard from her since. A lot has happened.

      did you see what the “words” were?

    • #22830

      Such a rad experience! Hearing you tell it last night and now re-reading it…it doesn’t get old.

      A couple things:

      – It’s interesting to me that you capitalized “Darkness” as though you’re making it sound as something….big. Is this due to the way Otis was saying it or just something you’re doing?

      – OTIS!!! So he goes from stumbled upon rituals to hanging with the JC crew? How did @joycecarlberg come in contact with him when we saw him with the Sinclair clan?

      – Have you checked your cupboards/kitchen for clues that he may have left?

      – Also, something seems off about him asking about “the words”. I think a normal person would ask for the papers. Could this be some AI/Iconfidant type of technology being actually implanted in someone?

      – the most important thing…did you offer them Snickers or Kit Kats?

    • #22831

      Wow! Hell of a night, @russell! Fascinating that Otis introduced himself as John. And how fun that you got to meet @joycecarlberg! I’ve heard she’s a hoot!

      I can certainly relate to feelings of disconnection. Honestly, I’ve been feeling them myself lately. I’m glad to see that you are receiving some personalized attention, though. I know you had some very meaningful interactions with Sabrina in the past. I hope you find that connection again.

      And I hope they buy you some more yogurt one day. That would be hilarious.

    • #22832
       Lauren Bello

      It’s interesting to me that you capitalized “Darkness” as though you’re making it sound as something….big. Is this due to the way Otis was saying it or just something you’re doing?

      I wonder if we should start a compilation of what’s been said about the Darkness. So far, I’ve got:

      Sabrina, at iConfidant meet and greet: “I know that some of you think you know who I am, due to my digital shadow, due to the things you see online, but that’s just another projection of lies. That’s the skin I wear in the light, and the skin that I shed when his Darkness comes upon me.”

      Email: “WAIT FOR DUSK.

      These descriptions have made Anoch’s (presumably) Darkness sound like a time of freedom and debauchery.

      But then there’s what The Midnight Commission has had to say about it:

      “Illuminate the darkness and all will tremble upon our truth.”
      “Unify and fortify our mightiest weapon against the coming darkness: OUR MIND!”

      This made it sound like the Darkness was something to guard against and fight.

      And now there’s a new angle:
      “When the Darkness comes… it brings a whole heap o’ trouble with it!”
      “The paaaiiiiinnnn. The pain brings the Darkness.”

      So do Joyce and Otis/John WANT the Darkness to come? Or are they against it? Is this perhaps where Joyce and Horace differ? Maybe Joyce is not such a fan of riotous debauchery and lawlessness.

      It’s particularly interesting that the pain brings the Darkness, as opposed to the Darkness bringing pain. Is the “pain” a reference to a particularly painful sacrifice that will bring Anoch’s Darkness?

    • #22833
       Brad Ruwe

      Holy shit…. that’s absolutely wild. People overheard Otis refer to himself as John at the Idle Hour meetup, right? This would seem to confirm that’s his actor’s name.

      The actions of the woman in the cloak sound like this could very well be the sex chapter if they’re using flirting to get inside our heads. If that’s the case, strap in folks, this is going to be a wild ride.

    • #22836

      Great points @daela

      It’s almost like “Darkness” is considered something/someone important, especially since each faction seems to want something different from/for it.

      Or maybe it’s personal for each one of us and each group wants to either help us or destroy us or make us aware. For example, if Otis is telling us that pain brings the Darkness, maybe he’s reminding us to not let that happen. We all get hurt and sometimes we go to dark places when that happens which can bring trouble.

      TMC seems to possibly want us to get out ahead of it and fight it.

      Sabrina/IC seems to want to just bathe in it and let it all happen. Don’t fight it, just accept it.


      • This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Mike.
    • #22839
       Lawrence Meyers

      @russell — Bravo for your comprehensive recollection. And I think a pattern may be developing.

      I always come back to Ouroboros – we were essentially told that this is the point of LUST — journey to wholeness.

      I think the Darkness may refer to what we all remember as Joseph Campbell’s “Journey to the Innermost Cave” — the dark and fearful place inside all of us that we must travel into in order to come out the other side, more developed, to complete the journey. That’s where our biggest complexes reside — our Shadow. Gotta acknowledge and grapple with the fucker to move forward. And when you’re in battle with it, it SUCKS.

      It’s also possible, apparently, to become possessed by the Shadow. Where you get so wrapped up in your paaaaiiiinnnn, that you are stuck in the Darkness.

      I think that’s what Noah’s challenges were about. Little things at first, leading up to the big “what do you hate about yourself” challenge. The complexes were tackled in spectacular, beautiful and moving form by just about everyone. Our good friend @mike was the climax of that show [pun intended cuz, you know, it’s Mike].

      It looks like they are raising the stakes, though, going after some of us for unknown reasons. They’ve certainly been working Bryan. They got me (too damn easily). I think they’re working you now and only you know what complex you are struggling with — but I think they do, too, and you’ve alluded to it.

      Expect more. I was SO easily manipulated, it makes me wonder what threads they’ll pull on.

    • #22840

      That was great to read @russell! It went zero to 100 really quick! Nearly everyone came out of the wood work and you handled it swimmingly. (And I admire the want to eject Joyce from your home after her rudeness)

      What a gigantic WTF. But man, I don’t want any pain or the darkness. What if they attempted to bug your space? Or, er, collect all your energy and emotion.

      Love it!

    • #22843
       Meghan Mayhem

      A wonderful recollection @russell.
      This entire interecation seems overwhelming clue-laden.
      Joyce’s verbal narration at the beginning suggests she was recording as well, or that someone was listening.
      And this is also not the first time we’ve heard Otis referred to as John. He made mention of it on his Facebook during his post-ritual outburst shortly before deleting, where he mentioned “taking over John’s phone”

      Also, any chance the mysterious woman was Bryan’s motel prostitute? We already know that actress is an “associate” of Joyce’s.

    • #22844

      Echoing what others have said @russell, that’s a great write up of an exciting night.

      I’ve always sort of assumed that whoever is interested in the Darkness wants to bring it about in a literal sense, but now I’m wondering if it isn’t more metaphorical.

      Early on there was a quote on one of the paintings (or statues) that said: “Much of your pain is self-chosen.”

      Now we’ve seen Joyce admit that she chose to relive some of the worst decisions in her life, which I’m sure caused her some degree of pain. That’s an almost literal reading of the quote, but it does get into the idea of choice. Whether she wanted to do it for herself or it was a choice she had to make as an employee of HCDI/OSDM/The Experience isn’t totally clear.

      Otis (or John) indicated that pain brings the Darkness. So now there’s the literal angle that people have to cause pain or self-select into pain to bring about the Darkness. If it is literal, could be that choice is an important part of actually bringing the Darkness. This would wildly differ from Horace’s perspective on free will.

      Or there’s the idea of reliving and understanding your pain (I realize I’m reading a lot into Joyce’s answer here) in an effort to work through it so we don’t bring about the darkness in ourselves. If we do let that pain come through and do it’s thing, it would bring “a whole heap o’ trouble”. Going back further, if we realize that most pain comes about because of the choices that we make, much of it could be avoided completely. This actually ties into Noah’s messages from The System seminar. He wanted everyone to understand themselves and their choices better which could help avoid pain.

    • #22845
       Drew Huntley

      Just to echo what everyone said, that was a thrilling write up!

      Thinking on a connection between @creepsociety and the overarching them of your connection/disconnection with Lust. Do you think they instead were trying to point to the fact that you knew little about her. They weren’t looking for a single piece of info (they seem well equipped on that front), they were instead trying to lead you towards making an emotional connection with her. At the meetup or just in general.

      Also after reading the full write up the briefcase sounds much less like intimidation aimed at you. Instead it comes off as more like them saying/displaying the tools with which they have to start connecting you with the experience again. Almost a plead. As if to say “please choose the piece of info that will best bring you back into the fold.”

    • #22846

      I’m going to agree with @rizzzoooooo that after reading/chatting with Russell, the young man was almost certainly our old friend Fluff. Down to asking his name and him replying “maybe later.”

      Definitely a lot to unpack here. @mike’s breakdown of how each group interprets/intends to use The Darkness is very useful. Is this self-actualization, or strength, gained through pain?

    • #22847
       Robert Fuller

      Young man = gluttony
      Attractive woman = lust
      Otis = sloth

      Are we being visited by the deadly sins?

    • #22848

      Holy crap you people have been busy this morning, haha! Here is my attempt to catch up. 😉

      , I think everything gathered so far is found with basic data mining. (the picture they used of @mike and me came from a Seraph Films Christmas gathering and was posted on their feeds. Oddly enough, we encountered DLB and Sabrina briefly at that gathering. Either could have easily recalled that photo was available. Notice the totally bitchin Gremlins sweater I have on? haha!) Unfortunately, I did not even notice they had left any papers behind until the young man came to retrieve them, I did not see them at all.

      @thebuz and @bcbishop Wow… I really did not describe the woman! Sorry! She was probably in her twenties. She had a very harsh look, hair pulled straight back into an extremely tight bun, it seemed black in color. Her make up was dark and harsh in appearance – black lipstick drawn to harsh points on the lips. The make up might have been misleading me, but I believe she had a fairly dark complexion. @meghanmayhem – I do not think this is the woman Bryan met. The woman in the picture from Bryan’s encounter, I think, has a much lighter complexion.

      Yep, I think you got it right – this was testing and data gathering on my reactions. Even how I reacted to Kritsin’s name could be considered data gathering. The attractive woman would have had more of an effect if Joyce had given her more time… >sigh< It also seems odd to me that it is such an obvious test. Parade the attractive woman in front of him and see what happens? Not very subtle. But, since the whole thing seemed to be about my emotional connections… a stronger reaction to her from me would surely have surprised them, I bet. I suspect they knew that she would have little effect on me in that stressful situation. Maybe…

      You picked up on the most interesting thing of the whole night for me – Sabrina is now “disconnected” in some way? What does that mean? Once again I find myself in the position of not knowing what to do to help this woman even as I want to do so. It was a very uneasy feeling listening to her express what she said.

      , yes, I chose to capitalize Darkness because Otis seemed to be using it as a proper noun – to name a specific thing. Add to this @daela comments about the Darkness and this becomes a confusing angle. Why was this message about the Darkness included in all of this questioning of me? And, yes, Sabrina did reference Darkness at the iConfidant event. After hearing the tone in her voice last night, I can only say I hope/wish there was some way I could protect her… if that is what she needs. Damn, that phone call has confused my heart and my head.
      And, Dude, of course I looked around my kitchen! I have not found anything, yet. The young man’s use of “words” actually made me think back to the reveal last year of the scripted pages made public after DLB and Clint appeared on the My Haunt Life podcast. (Some folks may recall they did an interview that was later shown to be “scripted” by someone when those script pages were shown publicly in a video.) What were the words on those pages? Here is an interesting idea… the entire night they kept stressing the word “disconnected,” a word I had used. @mike mentioned the concept of AI programming and a possible iConfidant connection… trigger words are used in AI programming. Could this be them trying to plant this word – of my own choosing – as a trigger word for me to be used against me somehow in the future?

      I can say @joycecarlberg is a woman I would like to break bread with and hear stories from… she is a serving of powerful with a big ol’ side dish of sly and mysterious.

      Personally, I admit to sometimes choosing to revisit something painful to learn from it – or sometimes just to feel that pain again, fully, in order to appreciate other aspects of my life.

      Very interesting take on the Kristin connection. Maybe they were planting the seed that I should get to know her better, which may be useful to them later? Wow, the idea that they were leading me instead of asking for information. That might twist everything from the first part of the conversation.

      Whatever this journey of mine is… inside and outside of this universe and this community… I sense that I am balancing on the edge of my own form of Darkness. If now is the time for me to forge a path through to get to that elusive “other side” you reference, I am not sure I am strong enough in this moment. Life has me feeling vulnerable and – yeah, I’ll say it – “disconnected.” Part of that is my uncertainty of what/who I can trust right now to deliver on what they promise. Last year I placed faith in folks who abandoned me when I needed them to shine. Perhaps that is the root of my disconnect. The solution may be as simple as opening my heart again… but I fear getting burned again. I am doing my best to focus on the positive, present and past, but sometimes it is murky waters where I am wading.

      I feel like I have already taken my first steps toward the Darkness. And… I am not sure how @joycecarlberg might use that knowledge.

    • #22849
       Lauren Bello

      @russell It wasn’t this girl, was it?

    • #22850


      Could this be them trying to plant this word – of my own choosing – as a trigger word for me to be used against me somehow in the future?

      • This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Mike.
    • #22852

      @daela No, I do not think so. The woman last night had smaller features than this woman. (smaller nose and lips, rounder face)

      Aw, @mike, well played.

    • #22853

      @daela That would be very sad. But also, at least she wouldn’t be dead!

      Did the retreat @joycecarlberg mentioned remind anyone else of the HiB leaks? Like the mandatory retreats for actors that were mentioned? I think Joyce was indeed talking about a work retreat, just not on the level that we would expect.

    • #22854
       Lawrence Meyers

      @russell I think you said it. I agree. I feel as though you are on exactly the right path. We are never ready or strong to face the innermost cave — never. That’s the point. If we were ready, then by definition we’d already be on the other side of it.

      You are already there, at the entrance. How will Joyce use it? Here’s the thing — she can’t. Yes, she can push you further in, and even create a scenario designed for you to grapple with. But it’s up to YOU how you grapple with it. And if you don’t do it via whatever plan they have for you, you will either end up there anyway, or you will run from it.

      i.e. Frodo had to leave the Fellowship. It was either that, or throw the Ring in the river and watch Middle Earth perish.

      You’re questioning. You’re searching. Disconnection is the theme. Follow it. See where it leads. We know where it is meant to go in a general sense — the greatest gift I ever gave myself was after my divorce and realizing that actually letting myself have feelings made me a more whole person. (Not quite there yet. Longgggggggg way to go. But that has been the biggest step.)

      As for Sabrina — I can now tell you from personal experience how hard this is going to hit you — but let her go. You cannot help her. You cannot guide her. You cannot protect her. She has her own path, too. Just like Steph.

      Perhaps…if I may…there is some projection going on here. Perhaps you feel that you have been unable to fulfill your promise to Sabrina (which has NOTHING to do with you, but only with her), and rather than accept this sad truth, you project it onto others — that perhaps you fear others will not fulfill promises to you….? I speak only from experience…I see much of myself in many of our little loony community.

    • #22879

      This is the first time Otis has introduced himself as John, right? What if his long absence was due to attending one of those “retreats?” I find it interesting that Joyce is calling him Otis in the same space of time that he is calling himself John, especially when Joyce attended a retreat herself. The facade seems to be slipping.

    • #22881
       Robert Fuller

      @izryn I thought that was interesting, too. But Russell did say that Otis/John said his real name very softly. Which is actually even more interesting, because it implies that he’s breaking the fourth wall without letting Joyce know that he’s doing it. So what’s going on there? Why would John want to establish from the outset that he’s just an actor?

    • #22885

      Re: the continued use of the word “disconnected” could be an indication of *their* AI programming.. the same way some of the early iConfidant messages felt robotic. I love that the AI theories are still alive! @russell was the way Otis/John was triggered to talk about the Darkness did it seem AI-like (or brainwashed) at all?

      Re: saving Sabrina/Addison if we all gave up on that what would we have left? We need to save somebody.. be it Sabrina, Otis, Noah, Joyce (eventually), or possibly just ourselves.

      Re: the Darkness for some reason I kept thinking of the band: https://g.co/kgs/ex6WsQ

    • #22899

      @remrelganaps I did not feel like Otis was trying to hide or “pull a fast one” behind Joyce’s back or anything like that. He seemed less “present” than the others. He simply said his name as he walked away from me to find a position in the room. As I said earlier, he was slumped over looking at the floor most of the time Joyce was talking. It seemed as if he wasn’t that interested in what these folks that he was hanging out with were doing. On the other point you raise… I am not sure why he would state a real name… unless that is another indication of just how NOT invested he is in this “job” – if it is, indeed, still a job to him.

      I cannot shake how the word “disconnected” kept getting stressed… and the questions seemed a bit open ended several times. (Like they wanted me to “fill in blank.”) That’s why I mentioned the whole idea of them setting something up… like the power of suggestion. Then, to have Sabrina tell me of her connection to me did, I admit, hit hard. Maybe because of the repetition of that word before the phone call was made? As far as Otis speaking, i do not feel their was an “AI” vibe to that. He had a job… his job was to tell me about the Darkness and what brought it.

      Here is the thing I did not state but I think is obvious a couple days later. Why Him? The most logical reason to have Otis there to make the statement about the Darkness would be that HE has experienced pain… enough pain to bring the Darkness forward for him… They know I have been having some issues recently that are bringing out some heavy thoughts in my little brain. (We briefly discussed my recent hospital visit twice during the conversation.) Maybe that was the reasoning for bringing him to me and having him state what he did…
      “Take it from this guy… he’s done Darkness and is here to tell ya it ain’t pretty!”

      And @larry

      — but let her go. You cannot help her. You cannot guide her. You cannot protect her. She has her own path, too.

      This may be true, but I agree with @shaun… if I don’t try… if we don’t try… what would we have left?

    • #22901
       Lawrence Meyers

      @russell Remember — we did try. And what happened? She left on her own. And she came back on her own.

      “Ride the horse in the direction it’s going” —
      I know this will hurt to hear, but Sabrina has decided her own path.

      What we have left is what we always have left — ourselves. Our own journey.
      Whether we view it, as @shaun says, as saving ourselves or the Hero’s Journey, that’s it.
      And there is nothing more important.

      Judaism has a philosophy called Tikkun Olan — “heal the world”. But an important caveat to this is that we must first heal ourselves and become as whole as possible before we heal the world.

      That, and if you search “You cannot save anyone”, you get 261 MILLION results. I think the verdict is in.

    • #22931


      “Ride the horse in the direction it’s going” —
      I know this will hurt to hear, but Sabrina has decided her own path.

      Larry, you have no evidence to support this statement at all, and this is the exact same kind of “Oh she’s made her decisions, don’t try to save someone who’s chosen to be there” assumption people made last year, and all of them were proven wrong.

      Tom Barrow told us at the iConfidant event that he’s improved upon the OOA’s helmet technology – the same technology that erased “Sabrina” from her own mind in 2016. We don’t yet know if the person standing before us that night was Sabrina, or Addison, since she called herself neither. We certainly don’t know if she chose to be there of her own free will. If Stephanie suddenly acted out of character and put herself in harms way, we’d be scrolling for an hour to get through your post on how angry you are and how deeply you care, so it would be great if you could refrain from assuming other women are overjoyed at returning to their captors to be tortured in compounds. THANKS BUDDY!

      • #22935
         Lawrence Meyers

        [it’s @Larry. the other is my Shadow]

        , or should i say, Fellow-Savior-Complex-Sufferer,

        Saying I have no evidence that Sabrina or anyone else is acting of their own free will is the same Bertrand’s Teapot fallacy I posted earlier. I have no evidence that YOU are acting of your free will. Or that anyone else is. Or that there isn’t a teapot orbiting the sun. Hell, she could tell you to your face in the most reassuring way ever, “Morgan, I am acting of my own free will” and you’d still be skeptical, because the Savior Complex won’t want to hear it.

        In fact, she DID say it to your face at the iConfidant gathering!

        What are you, her father? Did you not get a whiff of anything that’s happened this week?

        Mr. Stranger: “You can’t save them all”
        Stephanie: “Don’t try to save me. Don’t try to protect me”

        I got the message. Loud and clear. Didn’t you?

        Unless there is a clear and present danger to act upon, there is nobody to save. And I’m doing you a favor. You see how easy it is to get lured into a trap when you expose your weakness like this? Then it’ll ME having to save YOUR ass from some creepy warehouse, and my tetanus shot is not up to date.

        so it would be great if you could refrain from assuming other women are overjoyed at returning to their captors to be tortured in compounds.

        And it would be great if you could refrain from assuming that this ridiculous situation exists, or that Stephanie or anyone else can’t take care of themselves.

        Not to mention the hyperbole. What happened to refined British understatement?

    • #22932

      @111error, you’re speaking to @larry’s shadow.

      And, @creepsociety, you’re speaking to @russell’s.

      Is that intentional?

      • This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by superstar.
    • #22938

      @larry – Man, I wish Stephanie listened to Hatebreed when she said “Don’t try to save me” because then she could have followed it up and screamed “How can you save me, when you can’t…SAVE YOURSELF?”. Then, much like the park incident, everyone around you becomes a part of it and turns into this huge flash mob pit.

      Oh you know 😉

    • #22939
       Lawrence Meyers

      @mike Why do I feel like Hatebreed was mentioned somewhere else recently???

    • #22951

      @mike ??❤️

    • #22988


      Okay… about this personal visit… I asked to record the visit and that was denied. I wanted to make sure I did not leave anything out. I am very scatterbrained these days… recent life stuff has me a bit rattled.

      I left something out. I APOLOGIZE to everyone for not remembering this sooner…
      I was about to fall asleep a few minutes ago when I had a flash of Joyce asking me a very specific question which I failed to include in my description of the meeting.
      It completely left my brain until just now.

      After Joyce asked me about Kristin, I believe, she reached into the briefcase and pulled out an object. She held it up and asked if I knew what it was… I said that I did.

      “It looks like The Book of Anoch.”

      “And does this have any meaning to you?”

      I responded something along the lines of, “To me it symbolizes a group of people believing in something that they thought was good. I thought it had been destroyed.”

      She put the book back into the briefcase and moved on to the other questioning.

      I cannot believe I had forgotten that completely until just now.
      I am sincerely sorry for the oversight, folks.

    • #22990
       Lawrence Meyers


      Oh, pfshaw. That’s a minor detail. Utterly and completely without import.

      You sure you haven’t worn any…helmets lately? Asking for a group of friends.

    • #22991

      @russell could it be The New Book of Anoch?

    • #22992

      Oh so just Joyce carrying around the nuclear weapon of information in this craziness.

    • #22993

      @larry Walk the last 2 1/2 weeks in my shoes, Sir, then we can compare focus and concentration lapses.
      I explained to Joyce there may be an issue with me retaining information, but she refused to allow me to record the meeting and I respected her wishes.
      And, no… I do not recall any helmets in my recent past. 😉

      I was several feet away from it, and she did not display it for long. Very dark blue cover with the familiar symbol on the cover. I do not think it is The New Book because this seemed to have pages shoved into it, edges were not even… as if some of the pages had possibly been ripped out. (I remember the book being heavily damaged when Michelle threw it to the floor at the end of Tension, that may explain the condition of the loose-looking pages.)

      @thebuz I think one of the reasons this did not stick out in my memory (other than the inability to focus these days) is that she did not make a huge deal of it. She showed it to me, asked the question, then moved on.

    • #22994
       Lawrence Meyers

      @russell just checking. You know, while you were down at out, that rascal @mike may have slipped that helmet on just for giggles.

    • #22996

      Question for the room… when was the last time anyone actually saw The Book of Anoch?
      Was it when Michelle threw it to the ground at The End event?
      Has it surfaced since then?

      Trust me, I cannot believe this slipped out of my brain. I feel like a doofus. But, it happened just as I explained.

      You joked about the helmet but let’s take a look at that. I have only worn the helmet briefly, it was intense, intimidating and… to be totally honest, a bit of a thrill. As for @mike, he does know that at one point I truly wanted to join Addison/Sabrina and yearned to experience the helmet – just to see what it felt like for a longer duration. (Okay, maybe not the smartest instinct, but I did feel that at one point.) But, as far as I know, @mike has no access to the device. (But, to be perfectly honest, he is mischievous and if he did have access to it… not sure if he would disclose that fact to me. He can be sneaky. Luv the guy, but he’s mischievous.)

      Bigger picture, it does not surprise me that Joyce had The Book of Anoch in her possession.
      But, why? As @thebuz pointed out, seems a little odd that it is just thrown in casually with a bunch of other intel on a participant. I’m not the only one who has seen the book… so I don’t think it is specific to me in any way. However, was her showing me The Book of Anoch somehow supposed to strengthen the connection with Sabrina when I spoke to her on the phone?

    • #23000


      Now that’s interesting…why is Joyce showing it so casually?? Is it just to let everyone know it’s in her possession, or as @russell mentioned, another link to Sabrina, or some other reason entirely?? It made me think of the facebook post from the other day with the Ambrose Bierce quote about old things. Is Anoch going to be coming back into play in a new capacity??

    • #23001

      Countdown to @julierei getting her Anoch praising on in 3… 2… ??

    • #23002

      @russell you do have a personal connection to that book, don’t you? Weren’t you and @mike supposed to end up with it in your possession and didn’t?

    • #23003

      @coryphella Yes, Megan, that promise was made to us. When I saw it destroyed by Michelle, I just felt it was gone forever, though. In my mind, it became another one of those threads that just got dropped.

      There was that reference to Anoch at the iConfidant event, right? At the time, it could have been interpreted as a misguided self-delusion of Sabrina’s mind but maybe there are those still trying to get that band back together. Maybe Anoch really is the endgame here. It will be interesting to see if more hints appear soon.

    • #23004
       Lawrence Meyers

      @russell Whoa! I had no idea you had actually worn the helmet at one point! That is news to me.

      For everyone else, were any excerpts from the Book ever written up anywhere publicly?

    • #23005

      @larry – there were several periscopes last year of Addison reading from them, do those count? We transcribed them on the Tension forums and I still have most of the videos if they’re not up anymore.

    • #23006
       Lawrence Meyers

      @coryphella excellent. Thanks Megan, I’ll have a look.

    • #23018

      @russell it’s interesting the book was in your briefcase (I’m assuming it was) but would make sense since it was supposed to be yours and @mike’s to begin with.

      Maybe @joycecarlberg was checking to see if you would try to take ownership of the book or if you were over it.

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