9/7/17 – Briarberg

This topic contains 80 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by  Cassandra 4 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #24249
     Lauren Bello 
    Moderator

    We received the address at 8:39 (Melissa won the bet); the email said to arrive at 9. We arrived, were allowed inside by a silent grey-haired gentleman I didn’t recognize, and went up to the loft as indicated. Mason/Jack was lounging on the couch, solving a Rubik’s cube. Slowly. Mason, I challenge you to a Rubik’s duel.

    He didn’t say a word or acknowledge us in any way. Above him hung a large map with locations marked on it – not sure if it’s relevant, but there was a location in Mexico, six in South America, four in Africa, a ton in Europe, some in the US…didn’t want to step too close to Crazy Eyes to get a closer look.

    After we’d waited in silence for a while, Jaime descended the stairs. She had wide eyes and a very soft voice…you had to lean forward to hear her. She greeted a number of us by name. Asked how we were doing. Didn’t seem to be feeling any particular urgency.

    Just then there was a loud, urgent knock at the door. It was Morgan, covered in playa dust. “Gonna start without me?” He seemed unhappy, a bit snippy, and when he saw Mason/Jack he got downright pissed. He called Mason “Fuckface” and began a quiet antagonistic monologue, but we couldn’t hear much, as Jaime chose that moment to instruct us to sit at the table across the room. We seated ourselves and she began her speech.

    The speech was about the OSDM and their tactic of hiding truths within lies. And hiring “a horror director and a fledgling writer” to help them create a fiction that would allow them to hide the truth in plain sight.

    The main analogy in her speech was…apples. She had the grey-haired gentleman bring a tall box over and announced, “This is a box of pears.” She instructed us to reach in one by one and take a pear. We all did, to discover that most of us had drawn apples – only Melissa had gotten a pear. Clearly, this had not been a box of pears. The single pear represented the truth; the apples were the lies that obscured it.

    Another analogy she invoked involved the government’s habit of releasing stories with a grain of truth, dressed up with embellishments to look ridiculous, so that nobody would take the truth seriously. Hiding the truth in plain sight by cloaking it as something people would reject.

    It was, mostly, a confirmation of what we’d all theorized. The OOA theater was more than just theater. Tension was the truth disguised as theater.

    Then she had us go upstairs. And I hope to God that saying this won’t get them into trouble, but you deserve to know our sources: upstairs were Stephanie, Gale (processing room), Myles, and Mary Lynn/Lisa.

    Myles told Mike and Melissa to follow him. He led them outside onto the patio.

    Gale told me and Larry to follow her, but Stephanie ran up to Larry and begged him to go downstairs instead. He did. Gale instead took me and Chelsea outside on the patio. The others were similarly pulled aside.

    I’ll let the others describe their conversations and stick to what happened with Gale. She sat us down and told us:

    She wouldn’t be doing this if she were young, a 21-year-old actress trying to build a career. But what does she have to lose now? What are they going to do, kill her? Sue her? She has to get the truth off her chest.

    Have we heard about the retreats? What have we heard?

    We told her what Joyce said; she said we had no idea.

    She said they did terrible things. They were made to touch…things. Taste…things. Be…touched. She said they created life and ended life. They saw the Alpha and Omega.

    She took our hands and told us – get out. This is not a game. Get. Out.

    She left us. After a moment of stunned silence, we regrouped and returned downstairs. Morgan was gone. Mason was still silently playing with the Rubik’s cube. He hadn’t said a word.

    The grey-haired man sternly told us to leave.

  • #24250
     Lauren Bello 
    Moderator

    I’ll let the others share their experiences, but in the meantime:

    Melissa noticed a bunch of empty cold medication containers. Were Briarberg drugging Mason, was that why he was so quiet? Or did he just have a cold?

    Larry was told that Briarberg were, essentially, deprogrammers – they help people get out. I do not buy it. At all.

    Yes, we tried asking questions. But Jaime and Gale had their own stories to tell. There wasn’t time for them to answer.

  • #24252
     Brad Ruwe 
    Participant

    Grey haired man sounds absolutely like the man in the holding area for the TMC reveal. He told me he liked my hair, asked if I was religious. I was curious if he’d come back up once we started guessing Mason = Jack.

  • #24254
     Chelsea 
    Participant

    @daela You’re a rockstar. Thank you for writing all of this up.

    One of the most important parts for me was the line about DLB and Clint: “How cliche. They hire the horror director and the fledgling writer to come in and muddy the waters.” I think we have confirmation here that DLB and Clint are officially, irrevocably out.

  • #24255
     Andrew Kasch 
    Participant

    Darren maybe. But I don’t think Clint is out.

    It sounded like they played a very serious role in some of the horrible behind the scenes shit.

  • #24256
     Kevin 
    Participant

    This all feels too easy, almost like what they were telling people what they thought they wanted to hear. If they’re a legit organization, why have they stayed so quiet? Why let Mason make his creepy phone calls, which they’re surely aware of? Thinking @daela is dead on in her assessment that they aren’t just reprogramming people. Of course that brings up the question of what the hell they’re doing exactly.

    I’m very curious about their connection to TMC and BOS, but it doesn’t seem like that was dealt with at all tonight.

  • #24257
     Chris 
    Participant

    A lot of people have made the connection between the field the actors were vanned to during Ascension and the one Tina told @nothenrygale about in Spring, but its important to keep the timeline in mind and remember that these must be two totally different locations. Interesting that Lisa characterized her place as emanating this intense heat while the place Tina found much later just made her feel “floaty.” I wonder what this difference could mean, how far those differences go in terms of whatever the OSDM looks for at these sites. Also interesting to see Myles, Lisa, and Gale there, since they weren’t on the list of people Mason was pursuing. I wonder what the consequences will be for these actors who have betrayed the OSDM and for those like Erika, Damien, and Andrew who were courted by Briarberg but seem to be protecting themselves by keeping silent. Are they staying neutral, or have they chosen a side?

  • #24258
     Michael Rizzo 
    Participant

    Hi all.
    So there’s been a lot of questions about the connection between BOS and Briarberg. In short, JACK was a part of our organization… MASON is not.

    I’ve spoken to Morgan about this and he gave me some background to better explain what’s been going on. This is a quote directly lifted from the conversation, without any edits… hopefully this helps you understand we would never associate ourselves with a psychopath who beats people with bats or calls women to just breath on the phone. The OSDM torture and manipulate through trauma, we do not… The Briarberg Foundation tourtueres people, we do not. We’re better than that.

    Man, here’s what happened. BOS is a renegade crew as you know. I don’t have enough money to finance my goals alone. They promised me the money I needed and seemed aligned in some respects with what I need to do. Mason was not part of the fucking equation. That wildcard wanker would obviously never be something I agreed to, or would work with. “Jack” was very fucking cool, I trusted him, tonight I am fried and my head isn’t clear, I thought I was meeting people willing to invest in us, not … that.

  • #24259
     Brad Ruwe 
    Participant

    That is true @macbethinabathtub. Tina’s call made it sound like the “floaty field” purchase was a somewhat recent (at the time) thing. If Lisa and the other cast were taken to THAT field back during Tension, the timeline doesn’t mesh up. Maybe they were hoping the first field would have the effect they wanted, but they only found the right location recently, AFTER Tension finished?

  • #24261
     Anonymous

    I explained it in my slack about what Lisa Stanley said to us.

    I’ve thought about it and with my work load coming up and the constant threats of “Leave now while you can.”

    As well as being threatened behind the scenes…

    I’ve decided to leave. That’s it for me. I’m going to listen to the warnings. It’s time to get out of this.

    Been fun.

  • #24264
     Lauren Bello 
    Moderator

    @rizzzoooooo That’s what I expected. It fits. Morgan came tonight expecting to discuss a possible alliance. Once he saw Mason, though, he was out.

  • #24265
     Kevin Hsu 
    Participant

    I’m so stoked to hear confirmation that OSDM started it all! (also mortified)

    OSDM is real, hires DLB/CS to create Tension/OOA/BOS/Ascension. Within the creation OSDM carries out their rituals/retreats/whatever. After that phase was done they moved on to iConfidant and The System where they didn’t need DLB/CS and removed them.

    So we joined an immersive theatre, selling itself as a dark reality, that was brushed off as just theatre, but was actually an even darker reality wearing theatre as a mask.

    …i’m not sure if I’d rather have the apple or the pear at this point.

  • #24269
     Anonymous

    Yo @thegilded we may need to talk about replacing me.

  • #24270
     Brad Ruwe 
    Participant

    So… uhhh…. I’m not entirely comfortable with us potentially losing dino daddy.

  • #24271
     Kevin Hsu 
    Participant

    @thebuz , it has been fun. I don’t blame you at all for leaving. ❤️

  • #24272
     Chris 
    Participant

    @rizzzoooooo this asks more questions than it answers. What, in @111error‘s view, is the difference between Mason and Jack? How did he and Jack meet in the first place, was he referred to Morgan by Briarberg? And is Morgan saying that he doesn’t trust the entire org and that despite Jaime’s calmer tone, they endorse what happened to @joycecarlberg?

  • #24273
     Sean 
    Moderator

    Talking. Gonna sort out technicals before going into the saddened “we better see you later” speeches

  • #24274
     Chelsea 
    Participant

    @macbethinabathtub That’s a really great question… How did the two of them meet for TMC? How did that all start?

  • #24275
     Michael Rizzo 
    Participant

    I can’t speak for him, @macbethinabathtub. But if I were to guess, Jack was a good man and Mason is a dude who beats people with a bat and is a fucking monster. Fuck jack. Fuck mason.

    And yes, I’d think Morgan doesn’t trust the entire foundation. I wouldn’t either if I were him and I’d hope you wouldn’t either if you were in his shoes. The foundation is obviously very close to Mason, and any organization that aligns with a man like that shouldn’t be trusted. Bottomn line is a member of theirs did some really fucked up shit and they’re still connected to him, so fuck him and fuck that organization in all honesty. If they didn’t endorse what happened to Joyce, they should’ve said that and distanced themselves from that guy. They didn’t… and then we see him with one of the higher ups of the foundation in the same apt, just chilling on the couch.

    As for how he and jack met? I have no idea, only Morgan can answer that.

  • #24276
     Cara 
    Participant

    WAIT, WHAT? I leave for a few days and come back to JACK = MASON, Midnight Commish = BOS = Briarberg, and now @thebuz is leaving? Da fuk, Lust???

    I second what @rizzzoooooo said. I have no interest in associating with any woman-beating sociopaths, regardless of how passionate they are about their cause. That is not what I signed up for, and I am sure the same goes for my fellow BOS members. @111error How did you come to meet Jack?

  • #24277
     Lauren Bello 
    Moderator

    BOS is definitely NOT Briarberg.

  • #24278
     Lawrence Meyers 
    Participant

    I apologize for the delay. My head is spinning just trying to remember what happened and catching up on what everyone else was relating. We didn’t think it was a good idea to just post all at once or it’d be an unreliable vomitorium.

    I’ll preface this by saying that, despite 4 runs through Ascension inc. The End, and The System Seminar, while we waited up the block for 9PM to roll around, and as we waited outside the building, the adrenaline was active – and just as active and making me anxious and hyper-aware as my first visit to the warehouse.

    It also has the added benefit of making one present, although it can also impair my concentration – which is why my reporting may not be as perfectly accurate as I’d like.

    Picking up where @daela and the others left off – I should first say I was greatly relieved when I saw Stephanie. The downside of being human is catastrophizing when information is sparse. As a writer, it’s ten times worse. The scenarios I imagined walking into did not, mercifully, come to pass.

    Stephanie urged me to go downstairs. I descended the spiral staircase and found Morgan where I’d left him, needling and antagonizing Mason from one of the chairs in the loft. Mason was just stretched out on the couch, fiddling with the Rubik’s cube and smiling.

    I grabbed a Granny Smith apple as Brown Suit Guy stared calmly at me. I love Granny Smiths. I sat down and watched the drama unfold down here.

    Mason got up and Morgan was literally urging Mason to hit him. Morgan was spoiling for a fight, calling Mason a fucking coward. Jaime (the blonde woman in navy skirt and white shirt) asked Morgan to leave. I could not hear what they were saying exactly. Morgan, however, just texted me specifics:

    Darling, I’ll leave when I want to, this shit show doesn’t impress me” and she made a dismissive comment, and I told her I’m very good at starting fires, the size of the fires I’ve started in the last week alone would terrify her, and burning their tiny world of bullshit will not be my greatest challenge, or something to this effect.

    This is when I noticed Stephanie, halfway down on the spiral staircase, looking at me. As Mason sat back on the couch, I chomped away at the apple and looked to Stephanie and said, “When I was a kid, there was this book that taught you how to do the Rubik’s Cube. I was able to do it in two minutes. Sometimes 90 seconds”.

    I think I saw her find a small smile.

    She came downstairs and took my hand. I squeezed it tightly. I was doubly relieved to feel she was flesh and blood and not some AI robot, and she led me to a table with two chairs. On my way over, I left-handed the apple in a perfect arc right into the box.

    We sat down. The salient dialogue was:

    “At first, [during TENSION], everyone was really Method. They stayed in the warehouse for 12 hours at a time. Very Method. Then soon, the Investors started tipping the girls, and some of them removed their bras.”

    She looked down, drew her hair behind her ear. I took her hand, and looked in her eyes. This was difficult for her.

    “I’m listening,” I said.

    “I thought you don’t listen,” she replied.

    “I do, to you.”

    “I can’t believe I’m ashamed of this. I can’t believe Darren…One of them breathed on the back of my neck.”

    “What else happened?”

    She gave me a look – it’s a look she gives me when I ask a stupid question, one that doesn’t need to be asked. I do that a lot.

    Then she leaned in and gripped me with those powerful green eyes, and if you’ve had those eyes look at you, you know exactly what I mean when I say you are compelled to listen.

    “These people,” she said, referring to Briarberg, “they get people out of cults”.

    I nodded.

    “What’s wrong with having a Savior Complex? If I can help? If I can help someone, just one person?”

    The implication here was obvious. I asked–

    “Are you saying you were in, and now you’re out?”

    She was silent. Oh. OH. Shit. Fuck. Crap.

    I choked out the words, “You’re saying…I’m in and I don’t know it.”

    That’s when everyone was exiting. She suddenly got upset, and said, “Go with your friends.” She got up abruptly, opened a closet door and grabbed her purse, and stormed out. I sat there, shocked. Upset.

    Mason was suddenly beside me, the Brown Suit Man right behind him. Mason said quietly to me, “It’s time to go, Larry”. So I left.

    I joined the others in the hall, and they could see I was rather shaken. I was mostly silent as we took the elevator down and walked up the block.

    Then @mike made a joke and got a smile outta me. Fucker.

    I was trying to process all she had said, and waited for everyone else to relate their stories, to see if they jibed with my encounter. Nobody else had been specific regarding Briarberg as a deprogramming entity. When I did, it was like a bomb going off. That seemed to tie everything together.

    Look, I’m Mr. Crisis, right? Handling burning issues and keeping a cool head is what I do. But when I’m in the presence of someone who I trust, with whom I’ve shared two months of intensive creative and emotional work, whom I can read like a book and who can read me right back, and she says what she did —

    How could I have been so misguided? That’s all I can think of right now.

    ——————————–

    After I left, I heard that Terence had been watching the other reports scroll in on @meghanmayhem’s phone, and that he was confirming things. I texted him, and asked his take. He said three important things. In regards to this all being part of a cult he said–

    “What’s the quote? Wherever you go, there you are?”

    He also said, in response to other questions:

    “Who do you think the real cult is here? That’s the most profound thing I say in TENSION”

    “A lot of the actors didn’t know what they were getting into when they joined. I guess a lot of the participants didn’t either”.

    And finally, I told Terence: “I don’t place my trust in many people. But I trust Steph, and her instincts”

    He replied, “Bigger forces at play, but she is good.”

    ———————————————-

    There are lingering questions and also some answers.

    1) Her discovery and recruitment by Briarberg must have been very recent. Her antagonism towards Darren, “trying to drag her into LUST”, only to perhaps then be contacted by Briarberg, and learn what was really going on.
    2) It explains her antagonism towards the Mason phone call when I was with her two weeks ago – at first believing him to be part of Lust.
    3) Having the epiphany shortly thereafter that this wasn’t theater.
    4) She vanished for several days beginning Tuesday before last, which may be the time in which Briarberg contacted her and she met with them.
    5) The mysterious phone call and Slack correspondence from Mr. Stranger. The Slack exchange suggests this was Mason, as he referenced “forget about all this and your role in it”, referring to my advocacy for TENSION in the media.
    6) The mystery phone call from Steph last Saturday, telling me I ruined her life and that she never wanted to see me again…which she denies making. This remains a mystery.
    7) The somewhat deceptive approach Briarberg took to get us there tonight. Transparency seems to be lacking, never a good sign.
    8) One little detail. It may mean nothing. Stephanie has habitually worn a particular perfume whenever we see each other. Always. Angel by Thierry Mugler. That scent was not on her tonight.
    ———————-

    I will sleep on all of this, and take counsel with my consigliere @bcbishop. At the moment, I am inclined to listen to Stephanie. It’s difficult not to.

    —————————

    Trivia: By dint of fate, I coincidentally met the author of that Rubik’s Cube solution book a few years ago. I even told him that I got hung up for about a week while memorizing the solution because there was a typo in the book regarding one move. It took me a week to figure it out. His name is actually Paul Weinberg, not James Nourse, as printed on the cover of the book. Or perhaps it is his name. I guess everything is a mystery now.

  • #24284
     Cara 
    Participant

    @daela Agreed. Just concerned where this Jack/Mason connection comes in and who’s funding what.

  • #24285
     Lawrence Meyers 
    Participant

    I just realized that the call from the Mysterious Stephanie last Saturday — this may have been OSDM — using the AI technology that Noah had alluded to — to try and drive me away from or distrust Stephanie.

  • #24286
     Meghan Mayhem 
    Participant

    Apologies for chiming into this in the twilight hours after the hype has blown through, but it’s been a long night completely unrelated to all this…this chaos.

    Briarberg. Hooooboy.
    First and foremost before I say anything else, I truly believe that Morgan was blindsided tonight by the Mason/Jack reveal. I do not believe he knew that Mason was this person and I do believe that his anger was 100% real. The BOS that Morgan leads, is not what Mason represents.
    And let the record show that the one time I interacted with Mason/Jack at TMC reveal, he was a pushy dick to me. Tisk, tisk.
    And if Briarberg is condoning the actions of Mason, or even just protecting Mason because he’s “broken and can be fixed, just trust us”, there is no way in hell Morgan would work alongside them.
    Anyone who knows him knows he doesn’t mince words. If he thinks you’re a twat, he’ll fucking tell you.
    I believe Morgan.
    And if somewhere down the road I am proven wrong, if we’re proven wrong and it was all a sham well…the BOS fucking stands. The ideals, the goals, the vitrol, is fucking real. Leader or no leader, we stand. We continue.

    Now! That being said!
    Wow. So Stephanie, Myles, MaryLynn, and Gale aye. Wow. Was not expecting that.
    But I have to wonder…Stephanie is working with Briarberg. Ever since she started working with them, she’s had memory lapses, outbursts, contradictions. Gone dark for days at a time. That doesn’t sound like a person who’s working with deprogrammers. That sounds like someone who’s being readjusted.

    I have mentioned several times the term “freezoner”.
    This is what I believe Mason/Briarberg are.
    A “freezoner” is a Scientology spin-off. Basically it’s people who still very much believe in the “tech”, but disapprove of the actions of the organization, so they leave. Scientology considers them “ex scientologists” and “suppressive people” and disconnects from them, but they are still by belief standards very much Scientologists.
    These are dangerous people that must be watched out for. Why?
    They often present themselves as ex-scientologists and will work with deprogrammers, protestors, etc as though they want to help. What they actually want to do is poach. They want to find people that want to leave, or have left the church for a variety of reasons, then instead of helping them escape the cult, they drag them into a different version.
    “We didn’t like the way they were running the organization, so we started our own version.”
    Mason has basically told us that’s what he is. “Let’s listen to Mason, see what he has to say.”
    Well there you go.
    He’s a poacher.
    A naughty, naughty poacher.

  • #24287
     Megan 
    Participant

    @thebuz, seriously, NO. 🙁
    I just got @mike back.

  • #24288
     Blondie 
    Participant

    Trying to catch up, but I have the worst headache so I may not be 100% on my game right now. Here are my thoughts:

    1) We called the Jack/Mason thing at the weekend. Let’s not forget that “Jack” is also the person Michelle was talking to on the phone all those months ago.

    2) Everyone keeps saying that Mason was the one who beat up Joyce, but we have no evidence of that. Who was wielding the bat in Joyce’s apartment? Michelle – a woman with a history of violence, stabbing Samson, slapping Darren… Mason certainly doesn’t seem to be playing with a full deck, and allowing Michelle to beat the living crap out of Joyce doesn’t exactly make him innocent, BUT I still think it is important to make this distinction. Michelle is violent. Mason is… Well, he’s Mason.

    3) Where was Michelle last night? Is she part of Briarberg or is Mason working with her on the side?

    4) Morgan needed funding to further the BOS mission. He was misled. Briarberg may have the same intentions as BOS, they certainly seem to be revealing the truth behind the lies we have been fed. The methods differ. It is up to everyone anti-OSDM to decide which method they think will be more effective in the long run.

    A little known fact about me – I recently became active in protesting against extreme right-wing groups in the UK. Violence is a huge factor I have had to consider, something I have endlessly debated with those around me. The best way I can describe my viewpoint is this – imagine a group of fascist scum are heading towards a church filled with people with the intention of doing them harm (this is a situation that is based in fact). Do you stand back and let them do that because you “don’t believe in violence”? No, you intercept. You engage them in order to stop them reaching, and harming, innocent people. Sometimes you find yourself in a situation where you realise that your previously held moral standards do not apply. Maybe this is where Briarberg find themselves. Intercepting the OSDM to make sure we, the people in the church, don’t get hurt…

    I don’t know where this puts my allegiance in the grand scheme of things. I know Morgan has a pure heart and true intentions. But can a BOS that is a rag tag bunch of adorable renegades really achieve what an organisation with money and information can? It still remains to be seen if Briarberg are who they say they are, but I’m not discounting them just yet… Even if Mason is the guy who says he’ll call, but never does…

  • #24289
     Megan 
    Participant

    First of all, @blondie, I wholeheartedly support you. I just wanted to let you know that. We have similar things going on here obviously. I’m not naive enough to think that nonviolence is the only answer all of the time, especially not when confronted with the possibility of fascism. Or someone coming after my cats.

    On the topic of everything else, reading through all of this, I…don’t know what to believe. Honestly. You know at the end of this we’re going to find out just how fucked we are, right? And anything we think we know will turn out to all be wrong? And the only reason to stay is if we truly WANT to get fucked over? I don’t believe *anything* anyone is saying here, with the possible exception of DLB. We are, each of us, being individually shown whatever truth it is we want to see. Just enough of it to keep going forward and stay hooked. And I think we’re each going to react accordingly to keep that truth intact in such a way to maintain our own beliefs and ability to participate.

    I don’t know how much more I can post on here, because my posts are being read. I’m also being fed the truth I want to see.

  • #24290
     Blondie 
    Participant

    We are, each of us, being individually shown whatever truth it is we want to see. Just enough of it to keep going forward and stay hooked. And I think we’re each going to react accordingly to keep that truth intact in such a way to maintain our own beliefs and ability to participate.

    My headache is fast approaching migraine town, so just wanted to post before I reach pukes ville… But @coryphella, THIS. SO MUCH THIS. And thank you for your support, you’ve become a true friend amidst all this chaos ❤

  • #24291
     Andrew Kasch 
    Participant

    Everything we were told last night was in line with some of the shit that was happening during Ascension. Particularly with one of the handlers who started giving us BTS info during our second trips to the compound.

    Been thinking a lot about last night. I need to make a decision soon…

  • #24292
     Megan 
    Participant

    @kasch – you too?

  • #24293
     Melissa 
    Participant

    Sorry I didn’t post earlier but as soon as I got home I crashed. Okay, so….

    I nailed the time bet and get the pear–I should have got a lottery ticket last night or something. Anyhow…

    This whole thing left me with way more questions than answers.

    @daela it was an assload of spent cold meds. Seeing that I’m in the toxicology world IRL I’ll just toss this out there: some folks use cold meds to get high. I didn’t go through the bin to see which meds had dextromethorphan (DXM) but it’s a common ingredient in over the counter meds for cough/cold symptoms. If you take enough of DXM it will make you hallucinate (also drugs are bad mmmkay). I didn’t see anybody acting super weird so it easily could have been an innocent thing.

    When @mike and I went outside with Myles he had us sit down at a patio chairs. Myles sat across from us and begin to tell us that he’s an actor. As an actor he has moments of financial ups and downs. More recently he fell on more difficult financial times and searched around for gigs. He found an advertisement for an interactive theater job and showed up to audition. Myles immediately noted the negative energy and the feeling of oppressiveness in the audition place. He was then given a script except it didn’t have sides*–it was all his “dirty laundry”, all the stuff he shouldn’t have done/things he SHOULD have done in life. Myles admits that he has done things in his past that he’s not proud of and it was all there in that “script”. As Myles read out all his personal misdoings the room got brighter and brighter. Myles wanted to get the hell out of there but he was approached by a dude who never stopped smiling. Smiling Guy handed over a very large packet of papers and told Myles “you start tomorrow”. Myles declined but Smiling Guy shoved the papers to Myles and made it clear “you start tomorrow”. Myles read the packet of papers and it was EVERYTHING about him. Where he was born, where he went to school–etc etc. Smiling Guy then said “we have more copies of this and we can keep them safe until we can’t”. So…Myles was blackmailed by whoever Smiling Guy is associated with. Myles started to get up from his chair and started to grab a briefcase next to him and was holding onto it like he was panicking. I had a flash of worry that he was going to jump from the balcony because he just seemed to sad/ashamed. He didn’t. He said to us that the next day he was in a Compound in Boyle Heights. He apparently saw things and DID things that he can’t un-see/forgive himself. As he walked away he was clearly starting to cry. Right before he left he turned around and it was difficult to hear but I believe he said to @mike and I “kill me”. Jesus. Mike I feel like I may have missed details here so please fill in.

    My questions/feedback now:
    1.) Briarberg Foundation–I don’t trust them AT ALL. They led me to believe that this was an interview as to why I left Lust as well as my experiences with Tension. They lied to me and for what? For deprogramming me? I already “left” before these mofos appeared so what is really their motive here? I get it that if they sent an email out “hey we want to deprogram everybody in Lust, show up Thursday!” I’m sure their cover would have been blown immediately ’cause lets face it: me and e-mails don’t mix well. But still I feel duped by Jaime so trust is down the drain.

    2.) Morgan/@111error — after reading @rizzzoooooo post about Morgan’s feelings about Jack/Mason I get it why he’d be pissed with this reveal. He was duped. But there’s something fishy about this. He was going to meet these folks for essentially financial backing. Who comes to a meet like that pounding on the door and covered in playa dust? I know Morgan just got back from Burning Man but….I dunno even before he set foot in the door he didn’t have the demeanor of a person looking for financial support. I have this feeling that Morgan knew what’s up before he even got to that address and was really getting confirmation on something he suspected all along.

    3.) Myles — originally last night I was in aw poor Myles mode, worried that he was going to do something rash. Now I’m starting to wonder if this whole meeting was perfectly engineered. @mike and I have had some rough emotional times this year, we’ve been fairly public about it. Myles was clearly distressed. This makes me wonder if @mike and I were paired up with Myles simply because we would be totally receptive on an emotional level and making Mike and I easy buy-ins for Briarberg’s agenda.

    I don’t know if Briarberg is another cult, a genuine deprogramming organization, or more OSDM bullshit. The line that separates between IG/OOG are so damn blurry at this point it has my head spinning.

    * @thebuz explained that “sides” is a breakdown of the scene

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by  Melissa.
  • #24295
     Anonymous

    I’ll make my decision to leave after this weekend. Considering HiB and the actress that appeared at my apartment, it may be safe to say that I should have gotten out awhile ago.

  • #24296
     Lauren Bello 
    Moderator

    To anyone considering “getting out”…you could always join BOS and fight back.

  • #24297
     Mike 
    Participant

    @mkarrett – you nailed it! Thanks for writing that up

    I have to echo what Melissa said about Myles. He was so torn up about it all, I really did think he was going to jump off the balcony. After hearing about what happened and seeing the files that some of us got and the @russell briefcase, is there really any point to run? They have all of our info. Do we just embrace it at this point? We can’t hide from them.

    Did anyone else notice all the rope hanging by the entryway? I immediately thought they were going to string someone up and let them hang there and get tortured in front of us.

    When Morgan came in, it wasn’t a huge shock to me since we found the connection between TMC and Briarberg. I did get kind of sad because that was my friend in real life and in this world, I feel like he can’t be. So that was a bum out.

    Watching Morgan and Mason was pretty funny and there seems to be much more that we don’t know yet. The “fighting” was like sibling fighting. Morgan would talk shit and Mason would blow him a kiss. It felt that Morgan HAD to work with him even though he doesn’t like him. Could Morgan be under someone’s thumb as well a la DLB and OSDM?

    Some subtleties that happened to me:

    I wore an argyle sweater like I said I would and when I walked in, Mason barely looked up from his Rubik’s Cube, noticed it, and cracked a smile. That was pretty fun. Then when we were leaving, I did one of those “hey look we’re wearing the same thing” sort of thing and he nodded and blew me a kiss (just like the one to Morgan earlier)

    When we went upstairs and realized who was standing in front of us, I locked eyes with Stephanie and she gave me this look. This look was a combination of regret, sadness, and apologies. It’s a look you see in movies sometimes that’s really hard to describe, but when you see it, you just know. That was hard to see.

  • #24298
     Meghan Mayhem 
    Participant

    In reference to Terence tonight @larry…I have more to add to that. I wrestled with whether or not to mention this on the forums due to the fact that it was a casual conversation away from any of this but…never silent I suppose. Terence, I hope I’m not putting you in danger by mentioning this.
    I went to the Speakeasy show tonight and he was there in a different time slot so we had lots of time to chat before and after our respective shows. The meeting had just let out so I was enthusiastically reading through Slack and he and I started discussing what was going on. Well, I was. He was listening.

    A couple of comments of note:

    -In reference to not being sure who to talk to about what, not knowing who to trust:
    “There is an eye. It is watching. But it is only one eye and it can’t be everywhere at all times.”

    -In reference to not knowing what was IG/OOG/IG-OOG/IG-IG, etc.:
    “I think at this point it’s safe to assume there is nothing that is “out of game” because it’s not a game. It should all be considered and up for discussion. All of it. The important thing about seeing the magician hide your card is that you learn how he did it so you aren’t fooled again.”

    When the periscope started, he sat with me and watched it. As the retreat was discussed, he commented along with “yep…yep…wow…yes…”
    When the comment about the men in the suits in the OOA parking lot was brought up he responded very shocked and said “Shit, I can’t believe she’s talking about that wow…I guess everything really IS on the table…wow…”
    I asked him if he had heard of Briarberg and he just responded with a shocked affirmative head nod.
    I asked him if he could tell me about the retreats and he suddenly clammed up, became very careful about his words. Told me he didn’t think he should say any more.
    I suggested to him that we considered that this upcoming Midseason Event would be us visiting the retreat and his eyes became very big. He sternly stated “Don’t. Don’t go. Trust me you don’t want anything to do with them. Get as far from them as you can. You don’t want this.” I chuckled and said “You know we don’t listen. We will always chase danger.” He asked why we would want to go after all the warnings. I said “Because we want answers. We need answers to the piecemeal information we’ve been fed.” He said “If that’s true, send one in to report for all of you. Don’t put yourselves ALL through that. You don’t want it.”
    “A sacrificial lamb?” I asked.
    He answered, “A canary in the Tension mines.”

    And that was the end of the conversation.

  • #24299
     Mike 
    Participant

    @larry – I’m sorry in advance for this.

    Last night we talked about what Stephanie said to you

    If I can help someone, just one person?”

    and everyone immediately jumped to “That one person is you!”. Just for theories sake…what if the one person isn’t you. What if the way to break you and your heart is by seeing her help/save someone else?

  • #24300
     Lia 
    Participant

    @meghanmayhem So he was literally suggesting only one person buys a ticket to this thing? The only thing we have going for us is numbers. How many people are active in this community? How many family members know that we do this? We can’t all just disappear. We have no clue what we’re walking into, but if we don’t go through together, we won’t make it out at all.

    I’m also really vibing with your Briarberg theory, BTW. Nothing can replace a cult in someone’s heart like… another effing cult.

  • #24301
     Brad Ruwe 
    Participant

    Thank you for the recaps everyone. What a wild night! So…. the main takeaway is every time we’ve been asked by family and friends if we’re actually in a cult… the answer is “Maybe?”

  • #24302
     Meghan Mayhem 
    Participant

    @lilmsfancpants I don’t think it’s about disappearing or anything of that nature. I think it’s more he was saying “If you guys are determined to go through with it in order to get information, you don’t ALL have to subject yourself to the awful shit they’re gonna do to you.”

  • #24303
     Mustafa Said 
    Participant

    Man…reading all of this was quite a task but I’m done.

    On the one hand, I kind of like the idea of someone or something doing more than just trying to tear down the OSDM through helping those that have already been damaged by their actions. We’ve been told for a LONG time to get out, now there’s an actual group that isn’t just telling us to do so but is actively trying to help others disconnect from all the madness.

    On the other hand, can’t shake the feeling that Briarburg is up to something more than just trying to get people out of what the OSDM is doing, both through their ‘deprogramming’ mission and through backing the BOS.

    This all feels just insane at this point.

  • #24304
     Lawrence Meyers 
    Participant

    TO echo something that @bcbishop has said —

    If we are choosing what to do, put the mind on hold for awhile and be emotionally present.

    Stop trying to out-think anyone. It can’t be done. Stop asking questions about motivation. Nobody appears to have any form of pure intent.

    The only thing we can do is find what is emotionally honest and act in support of that.

  • #24305
     Michael Rizzo 
    Participant

    Reading through everything I don’t think the specifics of @kasch, @thebuz (rip), and I’s interaction with Lisa Stanley was written out. We talked about it over periscope and a little on slack, but for forums sake I figured it’d be good to throw on here.

    So everyone walks away with their given actor, Lisa sits the three of us down on a couch upstairs and sits across from us. She’s incredibly pleasent (as always) and just dives right into it.

    She stared off by talking about the method acting. She was allowed to leave at night and go home, but the younger girls all stayed the night. With no one really talking to her about this, she figured it was all method. She would get scripts where pages and pages of dialogue were rehearsed, but they would never actually act it out in the show. She had guessed those were scenes that needed a trigger word, but it was off. Then she spoke about the night she forgot her purse.

    Towards the end of tension, she was driving home when she realized she left her purse at the compound. She remembered that there’s a key hidden for the back gate over there so she quickly flipped around and was on her way back to Boyle Heights. When she pulled up, she noticed that not only was the gate fully opened, the lot was also full of cars. She jumped out and went in and saw a lot of people. “All older men in suits. And I’m talking like, men older than dust”. She would tell us that they were chanting or something, but not using any real words. They were just these noises, very guttural. She dipped out and got her purse the next day.

    She mentioned the Retreats with disgust and fear. She told us of a time during the Tension run, where The cast was told to jump in the white vans for a treat of sorts. She figured they would just be taken out for drinks or dinner by the producers is something like that. They drove for about an hour and when they finally pulled up to the destination, it was nothing but an empty field. She, as well as everyone else, stood in a circle and waited. “It felt like hours, even though it was barely an hour”, and then she went on about the heat. She asked us about the feeling you get when you’re really close to a fire and you skin gets extremely warm, when it feels like the fire singes your hair off but it’s not quite at that moment. That’s what the field felt like for over an hour. It felt like there was a fire just inches away from herself as well as the rest of the cast.

    She ended the chat and told us we still have time, we’re young and we can still sneak away from them. She gave us hugs and she ran off.

  • #24306
     Sean 
    Moderator

    “A canary in the Tension mines”… bullshit. Everyone, actors, OSDM, Briarberg, everyone knows that we all, individually, want answers. Every entity knows that we’re going to seek them out, even placing ourselves into dangers way to get them. They know this because many of the likely stood where we stand not too long ago.

    They know this. They know our dedication and they know we won’t stop until we get answers. They know this and they intentionally deny us them. They speak in riddles and warnings and intentionally avoid giving us the one thing that would stop our quest.

    If any one of them wants to actually be of any help beyond “plz dont go, its realy spooky and ull be sry lol” speak up and actually help us. Otherwise shut the hell up and keep your mysterious warnings to yourself.

    • #24311
       Lawrence Meyers 
      Participant

      @thegilded and @russell

      I’m not so sure about this, guys. You are forgetting the core piece of all of this that Stephanie raised.

      What if this isn’t theater?

      We have been given leaks from DLB and Small Dog Lover showing us that the truth — that we are now in a cult — has been sandwiched between the lies of immersive theater.

      I’ve spent a good deal of time with Terence. He is a level-headed guy. Straightforward. Tells it like it is. For him to say, “Don’t go” is not to be taken lightly. This is not like the warnings we have received before. Instead of playing the game of “They want to deny us so of course we’ll keep digging” is more indicative of the obsessive cult mindset that we are not even aware of — i.e. apples and pears.

  • #24307
     Russell 
    Participant

    Wow. Thanks to everyone for giving the recaps of their experiences.
    Especially after @rizzzoooooo ‘s description of what was said near the end of the Lisa conversation, I am pondering and overthinking… as I do.
    One of the things that has puzzled me overall since Chapter One of LUST is the desire to have this “Community” split apart… to turn on one another and compete for attention against each other. It felt ugly, to me.
    After some of the things said last night, I wonder this… maybe our value to Briarberg and anyone else is not as the “Community” or as the “One” that we make up as a whole. Maybe our value is as individuals. Maybe the scorecard “they” are keeping is one of individuals rather than the group as a whole. That might explain a contract expressing how participants are not to be “engaged” until certain criteria is met. What was said at the iConfidant meeting? “Controlling someone against their will is hard… influencing them is easy.” Each of us is making individual choices as to who we believe, what origin stories we buy into. @mkarrett points to the significance that our personal baggage and experience influences how we interpret and interact with all that is going on here.
    @111error needs his finances and friends to make whatever his agenda is… “work.” This is all stuff that each person must come to one by one.
    So, the personal warnings of “get out while you can” are not being delivered to the group as a whole. Stephanie says it to @larry. Miles indicates he wants out desperately to @mike and @mkarrett, the implication being they should want out, too.
    I am rambling… but see where I am going? We are on our own. Each and every single one of us.
    We may form a bond or trust with someone along the way, we may even make a pact or two. Share an agenda with someone. (Like the connections I spoke of a moment ago… and the others that are being discussed in light of last night. Right now, for me, those connections are to Sabrina or @joycecarlberg… but to what end?)
    In the end, we will be alone. The question might simply be… will we survive what we have go through to get to the end. The only way out is… well, you know the saying.

  • #24308
     Anonymous

    “A canary in the Tension mines…”

    I also call bullshit on this. Are you guys aware of what’s called a canary trap? It’s a method of determining the source of an information leak. You provide different information to each subject, and when that info gets leaked? Boom, you know who did it. When you get ahold of an Oscar screener with a watermark unique to the entity that was given the screener, that’s a canary trap.

    We’ve always been the canaries.

  • #24309
     111error 
    Participant

    When Morgan came in, it wasn’t a huge shock to me since we found the connection between TMC and Briarberg. I did get kind of sad because that was my friend in real life and in this world, I feel like he can’t be. So that was a bum out.

    @mike I will forever be your friend.

  • #24310
     Robert Fuller 
    Participant

    @thegilded and @russell have hit on very important points. For people insisting this isn’t theater, they’re doing it in the most theatrical way possible. Why not give us specifics of what went on in the retreats? It’s all vague allusions. They’re like the villagers at the beginning of a horror movie warning us to “stay away from that place.”

    I no longer feel good about this. Buz leaving is the scariest thing that’s happened so far (though I half-expect him to show up at Anointment as the leader of Briarberg, or something). Either we’ve inadvertently joined a real cult, or we’re being prepared for an extreme haunt experience that’s so extreme that it’s essentially real, and utterly traumatizing. Either way, I’m not interested.

    Is there any lust in this lust experience? So far it’s just a lot of tension.

  • #24312
     Sean 
    Moderator

    I disagree, I argue that it is often others who miss the point that I’m trying to focus on.

    If these people, Stephanie, Miles, all of the Tension alums REALLY cared about us they’d tell us the truth. The whole truth. The missing piece that still keeps everyone still here is that we’re looking for the truth. We CAN’T properly judge safety or the right decision or anything until we have the full truth, otherwise we’re operating on assumptions and half truths.

    If any one of these people cared half as much as they claim to, they’d stop trickling us the info that could, as they claim, literally save their lives. If it’s really as bad as they say and one of us ends up getting hurt, there is blood on their hands due to the fact that they’ve barely told us anything and what little they told us was late into the game.

    Actors being overly dramatic. Who’d have thought.

    • #24314
       Lawrence Meyers 
      Participant

      @thegilded I disagree, Sean. There is substantial risk at play. Whistleblowers often end up with the whistle jammed down their throat. You don’t have the whole story, and they may not, either. Stephanie didn’t have to tell me every last thing that happened at the compound, and Miles sure didn’t want to give details, either. It doesn’t change the core messaging.

      There may also be tactical reasons behind withholding of certain information. You will rarely be operating on any playing field with complete information. Demanding it in this scenario will be fruitless.

  • #24313
     Mike 
    Participant

    @111error – “When they stop believing you, you know it’s begun”

    🙁

  • #24315
     Maranda 
    Participant

    After seeing what went down these past few days I still can’t trust Briargerg. For one thing, Mason and Michelle’s little baseball outing – now that more Tension actors are speaking out, where does that leave Michelle/Mary? Was she there as Michelle, and if so, why maintain the facade in light of recent revelations? It’s clear she was a part of Tension’s theatrics, so why she’s not Mary is at the very least an inconsistency that’s been bugging me.

  • #24316
     Addison 
    Participant

    @thegilded when it’s increasingly becoming a life or death situation like this is, it might not be that they won’t tell the truth, or are actively withholding a secret because they’re being dishonest, but rather that they cannot tell the whole and entire truth in good conscience.

    They’ve told us the only truth we need to hear right now – get out. It’s now up to us if we believe that to be the truth – if we don’t, then why would we believe anything else they say?

    I think they do care about us. The way they’re showing it might be misguided, and maybe they’re partnering with the wrong people to get the message out to us, but that’s for them to decide. But we’re being given an out from those that have been on the inside, and the rest is on us tbh.

  • #24317
     Chelsea 
    Participant

    My brain today is full of a whole lot of “I don’t fucking know”, but @thegilded you kind of hit what I’ve been thinking as well. I see three main possibilities: 1. They are intentionally not telling us everything. Why? What benefit is there to them to not tell us absolutely everything?; 2. They are being brainwashed into a whole new line of thinking. Deprogramming v. reprogramming. What if Briarberg really is creating a whole new cult, targeting people who are vulnerable and traumatized to start the new membership base?; 3. As @addisonborn said, what if they can’t? But then, why not? What/who is stopping them? They are already in danger, what more could possibly go wrong?

    What if we really just have no fucking idea and we won’t have a fucking idea until we get real answers and whole truths. The running list of questions just keeps growing longer.

  • #24318
     Addison 
    Participant

    @chelsea @thegilded – One more what if. What if they’re not telling the whole truth because they know that the whole truth could hurt us more than a partial truth?

    If we knew EVERYTHING happening, that could end up doing more damage to us in the long run. Now we’re suddenly implicated.

    But if we leave now, we’re safe. And staying is our own choice.

    Most of us aren’t going anywhere, but that’s not because of them. It’s all on us.

  • #24319
     Lauren Bello 
    Moderator

    Gale’s description of the retreats pointed to the theory that the New Moon Ritual was, in fact, a retreat.

    The New Moon Ritual

    • IG said, “The New moon brought with it New life.”
    • The recording sent to Sarah involved a man describing a couple in front of everyone “procreating” – at the time, I thought the word was being used as a synonym for “copulating,” but it might have literally meant “reproducing”. Conceiving new life.
    • It sounded like the man in the recording spoke of an upcoming ritual death: “Tonight, we remove the pressures of her world by allowing her life to spill freely.”

    Gale’s description of the retreat

    • “We created life and ended life.”
    • “We saw the Alpha and Omega.”

    Sounds like the New Moon Ritual and the retreat both involved sex, conception, and killing.

  • #24320
     Sean 
    Moderator

    Bullshit bullshit bullshit. We’re addicts, here. We’re addicted to the full story. To the truth. To the facts. Keeping that from us “for our safety” is a flimsy excuse, because every one involved know that we’re not walking away from this until we get our fix.

    So for someone to keep it away from us “for our safety” means that they’re AT BEST cowards, prioritizing themselves or at worst intentionally malicious

  • #24321
     Sean 
    Moderator

    Correction to previous post: If they really know nothing then they’re useless.

    So they’re useless, cowards, or villains. That’s the range.

  • #24322
     Megan 
    Participant

    For the second year in a row, I find myself on Team Psychopath.
    I’m with Mason. Whatever that means. I realize this likely won’t end well for me, but it wasn’t going to anyway.

    • #24415
       Cassandra 
      Participant

      wow! He won you over @coryphella! I guess all that time on the phone meant something.

  • #24323
     Bryan Bishop 
    Participant

    Been staying away from this convo for most of the day, but have to agree with @thegilded (and, from an earlier post, @coryphella) here.

    The actors are telling us JUST enough to keep us interested and coming back for more. (That includes Terence saying only one person should go to the event.) Same can be said for Mason, and Jaime, and most of the other shininigans in this chapter. We can tie ourselves into pretzels trying to justify odd behavior, or we can look at the simplest answer: Briarberg (or the people behind Briarberg) want us deeply emotionally invested in what they are selling. Just like the OSDM.

    If I’m honest, even the strange phone calls I received — which I’ve theorized may have been from DLB/CS — have followed this pattern. “The only way out is through”? That’s essentially “Buy tickets to the mid-season event even if everything seems really scary, you guys.”

    I’m not saying we should stay away. I’m not saying I have any more idea of what’s going on than anybody else. I’ve never been more confused. What I am saying is that everyone’s behavior last night was straight-up SUS. And from where I’m standing, it’s awfully hard to accept that OSDM is real and SUS, without also acknowledging that Briarberg, Mason, Jaime, and all the Tension actors were similarly SUS. Just because we’re emotionally attached to Myles and the others doesn’t mean they’re telling the truth.

    Why did everyone say what they said, and why did they say it the way that they did? Given what happened, “protecting us” doesn’t make a lot of sense. “Ensnaring us” does.

    At the same time, the only constant we can depend on is our own emotional truth. How we feel in reaction to various stimuli – good and bad. It’s the only thing that is truly ours — and if we’re honest and present, those reactions are also honest, no matter what forces might be pushing our various buttons.

    @coryphella: I do not understand this choice, but I know it is an honest one. Godspeed.

  • #24324
     Megan 
    Participant

    @bcbishop – yes, you do.

  • #24325
     Bryan Bishop 
    Participant

    @coryphella Fair enough. It’s just going to be really awkward for our friendship when I finally get my hands on Jack / Mason / Johnny Psychopath.

    That’s my emotionally honest response to the last week.

  • #24327
     Anonymous

    Honestly, I think I’m just going to get out. We’ve been warned numerous times and I’ve had someone literally come to the apartment to warn me repeatedly throughout a conversation. I’ve tried not to align with anything, except progressively becoming more anti-Mason. And, honestly, a lot of this does not sit well with me.

    I’m a survivor first, a curious beastie second and I make a shit cultist. It’s best to just get the fuck out.

  • #24328
     Meghan Mayhem 
    Participant

    The pear apple analogy is cute, but wrong.

    It’s not “truth hidden in lies”

    Melissa pulling a pear out of the box when everything else in there were apples and thusly that being her truth doesn’t make “a box of apples with one single pear in it that was called a box of pears” any less of a lie, it just means that she didn’t have all the information and made a decision based off what information she’d been given.
    Just because she was misinformed doesn’t make the label any less of a lie.

    This is why science doesn’t do one test and call it a day. They must test all variables to understand that they didn’t just have a piece of information, but all possibilities. “Well we got a bag of M&Ms and the first one we pulled out was green, so I guess that means they’re all green. Good job everyone, let’s go home.”
    Nope.

    And this falls right into the Cave of Allegory. Don’t believe that what they choose to show you is the whole truth.

  • #24329
     Anonymous

    Don’t mistake lying by omission for telling the truth.

  • #24330
     Bryan Bishop 
    Participant

    Don’t believe that what they choose to show you is the whole truth.

    THIS.

  • #24331
     superstar 
    Participant

    “Truth” is subjective, and varies according to individual perspective.

  • #24332
     Brad Ruwe 
    Participant

    @superstar Truth is quite objective, what changes is how people interpret the world around them. Just because someone has a perspective that leads them to an untruth doesn’t mean it’s suddenly a truth, it means they’re misinformed.

    Now opinions, totally subjective.

  • #24333
     Chelsea 
    Participant

    @superstar Yea… No it’s not. Not at all. People believe all kinds of shit that just isn’t true. Someone’s beliefs will not alter fact, regardless of perspective.

  • #24334
     superstar 
    Participant

    @nothenrygale @chelsea Absolutely. I wasn’t clear. I meant, what one perceives to be “the truth” depends on their pov.

    That’s why I put truth in quotes. To imply that just because one has an opinion or belief, it’s not necessarily the actual/factual TRUTH.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by  superstar.
  • #24336
     Brad Ruwe 
    Participant

    Totally. People have all sorts of ideas on what is “their truth” when it comes to some things. But in many cases the only truth is that “It’s true this person believes this thing”.

    This sort of discussion always reminds me of this comic:
    Truth

    I see this shared all the time with the caption “See? They’re both true!” Except they’re not. One is wrong. This is when they both need to pull back, look at the bigger picture (remind anyone of certain art posts on Facebook?) and find context clues. Look for other things, maybe other numbers or letters nearby that point to which way it needs to be read.

    And if there’s no other context and it’s just a random 6/9 painted on the floor, then the truth is that some graffiti artist got bored and decided to paint a number on the floor simply to start arguments.

  • #24337
     superstar 
    Participant

    ok, I’ll bite, @nothenrygale… is it in the shadows?

  • #24338
     Brad Ruwe 
    Participant

    @superstar It’s absolutely possible the context one needs to properly know the truth is hidden in the shadows. That 6/9 could be illuminated, with the rest of the line of text being hidden. That’s where we’re at now. We have one piece of information, but we don’t know how to interpret it until we can be enlightened about what surrounds it.

  • #24339
     Andrew Kasch 
    Participant

    Emotionally, I’m starting to think more and more like BOS, especially after last night.

    However, we have two entities that are declaring war on the OSDM, and they already seem to be at odds with eachother. Not a good way to start off.

  • #24340
     Mustafa Said 
    Participant

    @kasch I think that BOS is more at odds with Briarburg than the reverse.

    Thing is, with both of them having the same goal and doing it differently, I’m worried that the fight will be slowly aimed at Briarburg first. Deal with them and then close in on OSDM.

    Granted I’m not Morgan so idk what his next move will be here.

  • #24341
     Jackie 
    Participant

    Guys, You all are MVPs!

    From @rizzzoooooo ‘s post: They drove for about an hour and when they finally pulled up to the destination, it was nothing but an empty field. She, as well as everyone else, stood in a circle and waited. “It felt like hours, even though it was barely an hour”

    Immediate recalled Tina’s conversation, about searching for empty real estate At the behest of the Creators, with energy and a ‘floaty feeling’.

    Anyways, Honestly, this feels like just a different trap door into the same pit of bodies once you clear the shoot. And if truly BOS needs their funding, because all wars do, do wrongs make a right? Is giving a rabid dog, Mason, access to run around wearing your dog tag, a good enough trade?If the BOS Altruism is dirtied by deals with the devil, then the war is lost. IF you’re fighting Monsters @111error, what is the point if you become a monster in the process? It’s all such a shit show, if it all boils down to: MY monsters are acceptable. THEIR monsters are the enemy.

  • #24343
     Lawrence Meyers 
    Participant

    The truth is that truth is a really broad subject.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/

    Pragmatically speaking, there is objective truth. There is a sun. The Earth revolves around the sun.

    Danger occurs when humans refuse to accept objective truth.
    Even worse is when they propagate their refusal of objective truth to others, demanding others accept it.

    Subjective truth….I’ll let others opine on that.

  • #24344
     Cristen 
    Participant

    @theladyj Morgan made a great statement about this in slack earlier regarding Mason and his work with Briarberg that’s worth sharing here:

    “Jack” is clearly a fucking maniac, and anyone that lets someone like that lounge on their couch during a meeting is not a group I’m going to trust. The rabbits continue digging this hole and now we’re looking up at a pin prick of light at the surface. The ends don’t justify the means, and if they did I would still be ready to accept their money, but if we lose our humanity then we’ll be lost forever.

    That’s the guy I know and trust.

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