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I think that there are several important questions that we haven’t even begun to consider, one of which is @bcbishop’s apparent role in this. Since February, he’s been targeted by everyone – Noah, Joyce, Mason – all of which seem to want one thing from him: his anger.
We started off with Noah standing him up and setting him up for blackmail, even threatening to send photos to his wife. At the end of this, Noah told him he couldn’t wait to “dive deeper” with him, indicating that this was going to be a journey. And, it has been – Noah ragging on Bryan continued. We had the “nice guy” flyers, he called Bryan boring, etc. Always trying to provoke.
We find out later that the blackmail attempt was from OSDM – linking Noah and Joyce. Joyce sets him up again with the prostitute who comments on the “violence” that’s inside of him.
Bryan becomes close with Joyce, Joyce dies at Mason’s hand, Bryan threatens Mason, says he’s coming for him. Mason taunts Bryan with this a few times, really stoking that rage, and Bryan realizes that he DOES have that anger and violence that they were talking about. And of course – it’s all a ploy. It’s a test, to see how angry he’d actually get. Joyce and Mason, working together.
Noah and Joyce and Mason.
Why are they testing him? Was this a dress rehearsal for something bigger?There are other people here with rage issues (um, me, for one) so this is not a random person being slotted into a role – Bryan was chosen for…whatever this is.
Please do not use the word “shadow” in your answer.
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It is extremely suspect that they gave the excuse of specifically wanting @bcbishop’s reaction to the whole Joyce debacle. Do they no longer want the whole communities emotional reactions and are now only looking for emotional data on a very select subset of participants?
Where does that leave the rest of us and what will the reactions of those select few unlock? -
@wintermute – this has nothing to do with Bryan or select subset vs. community – the two aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s undeniable they want Bryan for a reason.
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Yes I went of your topic a bit. I completely agree that they aren’t mutually exclusive, but you’re right that is a different topic of discussion.
It is obvious they want to use Bryan for some unforseen end. As of now it could be anything, but does feel like they need his anger to complete something.
The anger may be needed for another masked ritual or the like, but it’s hard to posit.
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Horace name dropped @bcbishop and his reaction to the @joycecarlberg beating when he called me two days after.
Everyone is interested in Bryan.
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@bruinbown – totally forgot about that, thank you. I’m trying to draw the connections that point to “why.” Nothing in this is random, none of us have been chosen for our interactions randomly. We are assets to them. Tools. So how do they plan to use him?
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I’m actually much more interested in Noah, Joyce and “Mason” all working toward a common goal, whether that’s Bryan or something much bigger (probably something much bigger and Bryan is a test subject of sorts). I’d really like to know who all three of them are answering to, but I guess that’s the million dollar question.
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@coryphella This post takes on a lot of added meaning given what we just saw on Facebook.
Nearly every single person you mentioned above was part of that video. Which doesn’t imply that they’re “teaming up” as some are theorizing on Slack. It implies, as you said, that Noah, Mason, Morgan, Michelle, and Joyce have been working together the entire time, to manipulate members of the community.
The question becomes… why.
“Getting emotions / shadows / etc” is not the answer. That’s methodology. That’s tactics. It’s not motivation. So… why?
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It implies, as you said, that Noah, Mason, Morgan, Michelle, and Joyce have been working together the entire time, to manipulate members of the community.
@bcbishop Yea, this isn’t a new team. We’ve been watching this gang work together for a long time. I agree that the next question is “why”, but I think we already know that. The truth in the lies. It’s all going to come down to learning how people can be manipulated to do and respond the way They want them to.
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@chelsea My gut is it goes even further than that.
Theory: What if IT isn’t a thing that exists. What if IT is a thing that’s currently being built… and they need our emotional responses and personality profiles to do so?
Replicated versions of us… with a full range of emotional responses… ones that we don’t show in polite society…
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This is very inruiging conjecture. I don’t know enough yet to know the why. So many twists and turns…
Has anyone come to understand why they faked Joyce’s death so explicitly aside from riling up @bcbishop? *Newbie asking questions, so be gentle*
Reading through the forums as fast as I can!! >:D
xoxo
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@missdahlianoir – I believe the conclusion we came up with was that faking her death was the only way to remove her from the OSDM – just prior to her visit from Michelle and Mason, she was still acting as a mouthpiece for the organization.
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@missdahlianoir There’s been a couple of different theories about this. The one that Addison’s talking about is one, but iirc it first started popping around soon after Joyce’s “death”. Basically, it didn’t make sense to a lot of people why Mason would do this terrible thing to somebody he said was so close to him, and “secret rescue from OSDM!” was something that made those pieces fit without causing massive cognitive dissonance.
The Part Two video that concluded this most recent chapter actually points to a much simpler conclusion, in my opinion: Noah, Mason, Michelle, Joyce (and likely Morgan) have been working together this entire time. We only think Joyce was OSDM and HCDI because she and others told us that; that could have been a lie, or something else entirely. But I personally don’t believe there was some escape operation at work. I believe that entire exercise was what Joyce said it was: a ploy to extract an emotional reaction.
As for what they want with me, specifically? I don’t think it’s ever been about me at all. I think it has always been about this community: the people here like yourself, that are willing to step into the fire just to see what will happen.
In that sense, I think that the Joyce death — and every other thing that has happened to me on this journey — has almost been an object lesson. A reminder of how far these people are willing to go (making someone think that somebody they cared about is dead), a reminder of what boundaries they’re willing to cross (we’ll rope your wife and family into this whether you like it or not), and a reminder that despite all of that, there is an opportunity for greater self-realization that can come out of all this darkness. It’s certainly been liberating for me to embrace and openly express some of my contempt, anger, and frustration within these digital walls.
Big picture, I tend to think of all of this less as a story that can be reverse engineered or puzzled out — those that pull the strings will always be one step ahead of us — and more as an opportunity to be changed through the power of emotion and experience. TeamJoyce, OSDM, The System; they’re all different names for the same thing: accepting and embracing our darkest natures. Through that doorway, enlightenment awaits.
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Basically, it didn’t make sense to a lot of people why Mason would do this terrible thing to somebody he said was so close to him, and “secret rescue from OSDM!” was something that made those pieces fit without causing massive cognitive dissonance.
That’s actually not my major reason for thinking this could have been an escape operation. I leaned toward this theory more because if Joyce was impersonating an HCDI/OSDM employee, she did so in a very public way for months without being called out on it. Which, given OSDM’s close close monitoring of all participants and their personal attachments, seems very unlikely.
(We know that OSDM wasn’t unaware of her existence: Horace called Kyle personally to comment on her death.)
So as long as we believe that OSDM is real and Horace is OSDM, either we believe
1) Joyce successfully impersonated an OSDM employee without ACTUALLY being an OSDM employee, publicly, for months, garnering fans who referred to themselves as “Team Joyce” and who posted and Periscoped about their interactions with her. And somehow all of this slipped past the data-monitoring apartment-bugging #AlwaysWatching OSDM. Then when Horace learned of her death he staged a dramatic announcement about it without bothering to confirm that she was, in fact, an employee. This conclusion makes OSDM look like fools.
or
2) Joyce really was an OSDM employee. Right up until she faked her death and went off the radar. She rubbed it in our faces a bit, because that’s what The System does: they get reactions out of us.
It’s possible that OSDM really isn’t paying attention, and that Horace is a bumbling know-nothing. It’s also possible that OSDM isn’t really a “thing” at all. Maybe Horace is part of The System too, and The System is the one keeping tabs on us and collecting our data. There are other explanations. But if we accept as the two truths of the experience that OSDM exists and that OSDM answers to Horace, (2) seems like the explanation that doesn’t completely neuter the threat of the OSDM watching us and knowing all.
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But if we accept as the two truths of the experience that OSDM exists and that OSDM answers to Horace, (2) seems like the explanation that doesn’t completely neuter the threat of the OSDM watching us and knowing all.
That’s where we differ. I think it’s awfully dangerous to assume either one of those statements to be facts. We don’t have any empirical evidence supporting either. If anything, we have information that would seem to indicate OSDM as we know it is a con job.
-The MSE is taking us to OSDM HQ, even though we’ve learned the location for said event is a temporary location.
-TPTB have publicly stated that they invented the Illuminati-esque OSDM for purposes of the show.
-Initial postcards for LUST noted it as “OSDM Presents” — not what one would expect from a group secretly operating in the shadows.
-Furthermore, the Joyce Escape Theory asks us to believe that Joyce secretly worked to escape by staging the most high-profile fake death ever, only to reveal she was actually alive without having done anything other than harass, um, me. I like the vibe of the theory, and it’d certainly be a fun switcheroo. I just don’t think there’s anything that would motivate it — particularly in light of the Part Two video. If she was just planning to disappear for a month and a half, only to reappear with the gang, Joyce could have simply dropped off the grid. There was no pressing threat that she had to escape. We’ve seen no OSDM retaliation. Therefore it seems like the only plausible reason for the death-faking is that it was about provoking an emotional response in the community.
Regardless of all of that though, it does seem pretty obvious that OSDM is serving the same function in Lust as The OOA did in Tension. It’s the entity that everybody’s getting all worked up about, and that we’re all going to “visit”. And, I’m guessing, we’ll eventually learn it is as fake as The OOA was. A fiction designed to hide another truth? Perhaps. But ultimately, I’m coming around to OSDM being a sham because it’s the one turn that would get the biggest reaction out of every single person here. All the investment from Team Joyce early on; all the rancor and venom from BOS; all the battle lines drawn within the community. If we discover OSDM was never real, then we’ve all been chumps. If any form of data collection by any group is still the goal in the slightest, that makes it the most likely outcome of all.
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I’m with you, @bcbishop.
I’m not willing to accept ANY premise as a “given” at this point. It’s been bugging me for a good while that the OSDM was “presenting” a public face at a temporary location in an effort to “take care” of the “conspiracy theories”. It’s part of what made me start speaking up/out. I -had- been contemplating that it wasn’t going to be the OSDM at all but instead the ‘resistance’ aspect of things.
Then I thought about the possibility that it was OSDM attempting to get us all into one place so that it could either of two things:
1) Gauge prediction effectiveness on a large group in one specific test of stimuli OR
2) Eradicate us all at once and remove the majority people who were aware of its existence in one fell swoop (leaving either stragglers to be picked off or ‘crackpots’ who could be shut down or intimidated.)
Then Part Two happened and I’m now clear of ONLY one thing:
NOTHING can be assumed any longer.
With the obvious corollary:
EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is suspect.
But I find that very freeing, personally:
If everyone has lied, then everyone lies.
Base your response on your feeling in the moment and recognize that you, too, are a liar.
Trust those who prove themselves to you–and recognize that at any moment, they may betray you.
Live life without fear, for you WILL be betrayed. Success comes in turning that betrayal in your favor.
Speak the truth when you can. Be honest when possible. But recognize you, too, will betray them.
Seek what makes you happy. What you lust for. And have no fear, no regret, no guilt.
Because that is all you–or anyone–can do.
I will hit the MSE with as few preconceived notions as possible. What I am curious about is whether they will even TRY to give us anything, at all, to believe beforehand. I’m almost eager to see them try, because I don’t know what action trumps what they’ve done already.
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I’ve never really understood this Joyce faked her death to escape theory thing – that has always seemed like something that we made up to make sense of a narrative, when in reality there was no need. In the fiction that was created to mess with us, they faked Joyce’s death to piss Bryan off – not to get Joyce out of anything. Joyce doesn’t NEED to get out of anything. She never has.
And I think we’re going to find that those five people who claim to be preparing us to survive the MSE aren’t doing that at all. I think we’re about to have the rug pulled out from under us AGAIN, and you’re right, Bryan, the OSDM DOESN’T exist. I think right now Mike is the only one of us who knows what’s going on.
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And I think we’re going to find that those five people who claim to be preparing us to survive the MSE aren’t doing that at all.
I hear you, @coryphella, I really do, but I have to disagree.
At this point in time, we still have no reason not to trust Noah. He has been incredibly straight forward with us from day one. That first night at Lock and Key, he wanted to make sure that Bryan would be on his team. Ok, so he might have used some unorthodox methods to ensure that Bryan was listening, but his message was heard loud and clear. Joyce and Mason were just other items in his “keep Bryan here and keep Bryan angry” toolbox. Bryan is an integral part of Noah’ mission and always has been.
So what is this mission? I’ve mentioned this before, but in one of his most earnest moments with me, a dusty, messy Noah Sinclair said to me that he wanted to help us before getting dragged off and thrown into a car. Everything that he said to me at the park is consistent with what he said at the end of The System seminar, it’s consistent with his attempt to enlist Tom at the O.C. meetup, it’s consistent with the @meghanmayhem B&E after registration, and most importantly, it’s consistent with the messages that we received from these most recent videos. Help out the community. Try not to get caught. Rally us against his father. Consistent.
We’ve had the rug pulled out from underneath us SO many times and throughout all of that, Noah’s message has remained the same. Something else has to be going on here. I know it’s extremely hard to trust anyone at this point, but there has to be some truth to all of this.
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We’ve had the rug pulled out from underneath us SO many times and throughout all of that, Noah’s message has remained the same.
That’s certainly the reassuring take. A bit of solid ground in a field of quicksand.
…Except for that niggling detail in Noah’s bio about him kicking his father out of his own company, right at the very beginning. So either Noah lied then (why?), or Horace is actually not who we’ve been told. Perhaps Noah Sinclair has been running the show the entire time. (After Part Two, I know which option I find most likely. “I’m your fucking god,” indeed.)
Noah and The System have tried to elicit emotional responses from us from day one… just like we’ve been told “OSDM” does. Noah and The System have divided us up in factions and turned as against one another from the very beginning. Noah and The System have used self-affirmation, and chaos, and fear of “Horace” to keep us engaged… just like we’ve been told Big Bad Horace OSDM would want to. Funny, that.
Base your response on your feeling in the moment and recognize that you, too, are a liar.
@unseenpresence, you are speaking my language. -
I’m not sure it’s fair to attribute things like the website bio to Noah as an individual, at least not with absolute certainty. Since the beginning this has been the tale of two Noahs, with his real world behavior constantly putting his company on the defensive as they try to spin and sanitize. To me the original System website and the press release about diabetes, to name just a couple examples, are evidence of the OSDM (or whoever) trying in vain to control the Noah Sinclair narrative that has clearly chafed him from the beginning. In the early days people were already noting Noah’s conflicting personas. Now, with all of the events @lilmsfancpants cited lined up with the benefit of hindsight, I think there is a consistency to Noah’s message whenever he exhibited that particular flavor of anarchic intensity that completely supports his most recent communication. If all of this seems inconsistent with the Noah Sinclair of the System materials, it’s likely because THAT Noah exists as much as Cap’n Crunch and was meant to function in much the same way. Unquestionably Noah has used OSDM tactics to emotionally manipulate, but his explanation felt like V’s to Natalie Portman at the end of V for Vendetta. Yes I treated you the way our enemies would have, I put you through all of that, but there was a point. Aren’t you stronger now? Aren’t you ready to fight? Is this the hundredth mystery box we’ve been asked to open and are we conditioned to expect nothing but another mystery box inside? Sure. But when you add up everything that has happened from Valentine’s Day to now, Noah has always been there and when given the chance to speak freely he’s always said some version of the same thing. In a world as chaotic and unpredictable as this one, that’s enough for me to be willing to walk down the road with him a little further.
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but his explanation felt like V’s to Natalie Portman at the end of V for Vendetta. Yes I treated you the way our enemies would have, I put you through all of that, but there was a point. Aren’t you stronger now? Aren’t you ready to fight?
Um…but that’s not a *good* thing.
V wasn’t a good guy. Like, at all. He brainwashed Evie and turned her into a weapon. She’s his pawn.
Are we pawns? -
I took the comment on The System website about Noah replacing his father to be nothing but a projection of what Horace wanted Noah to be. It was just the initial facade, but we’ve stepped inside the building, met the “real” (?) Noah, who has his own ideas about what he is trying to create. I remember when they were still trying to replace him with IT since he wasn’t doing what they asked him to.
Speaking of IT, whatever happened to Stacey? She was with Morgan, and Morgan is with Noah, so was The System already reaching out to us as early as the scavenger hunt that ended at the OOA warehouse?
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@lilmsfancpants – I think that MANY of us – you, me, @bcbishop, @meghanmayhem among others – have been guilty of seeing what we want to see and convincing ourselves that what we wanted to see was real. I think that whoever is behind this has continuously given us enough rope to hang ourselves and honestly, continues to do this. The emotional attachments here have been real and they’ve been intense and we WANT to believe that these people are who they presented themselves to be, so we allow the fiction to continue. It feels good to “go deeper” as Noah told Bryan back in the beginning – what does that mean, though? What *exactly* did we gain here? I feel really shitty saying this, seriously. And I don’t want to deal with this shit right now. But I was talking through this entire experience with another theatre friend last night, and as I did that started realizing things about myself that were pretty damn dark and nihilistic. If I can figure out those things, so can they, and I’m not convinced that me knowing them is going to help me through anything. I might have stood a better chance actually not knowing them. I might have stood a better chance *before* I was brought closer to something I’ve wanted, because now I know what I’m willing to do for it.
Joyce told Bryan that faking her death was to test him, to see how angry he got. What if they were testing all of us, not just Bryan, and we’re about to face the real thing? However you reacted to what tested you – you’re about to be thrown into the lion’s den, where you’ll face the real thing. Will you choose to react the same way, or will you make another choice?
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Wow thank you for that breakdown and well said analogy of experiences and perspective @bcbishop!!
That is very good to know and I agree that it proved to show us how far they are wiling to go to push boundaries, to mix it up and get a big response from the community. Creating emotional outrage, upset and tension.
So now knowing that Joyce is alright and they are all working together where do we go now? What should we expect? Are we still trying to work against the OSDM and break it down? Or were they also the OSDM themselves all along?
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