This topic has 83 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 6 months ago by 
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Well this is rather heart breaking.
Just got off the phone with Sarah. Going to try and recall as much of the details as possible here but here’s the gist.
Sarah is terrified and broken. She knows she’s lost. She called me because she thought maybe I could help as I’ve offered it before.
This wasn’t the robotic stone cold Sarah we’ve seen before. This was the most human side I’ve seen from her.
She talked about how Noah has killed her. That it’s her fault for trying to contain him. That he’s set fire to everything they’ve built and is laughing about it. And despite all of it she told me that she still loves him.
And when I say that she said “Noah is killing me” I believe she meant it literally. As her main reason for calling me was for me to let people know that Timothy (their son) is 100% Noahs. She wants to make sure that if/when she goes missing that people know that the bloodline is still connected Noah and that her son, despite her mistakes, doesn’t deserve to die. She also mentioned that she “tried to make it” with Grannik (Assuming Tim Grannik) but that he’s a “monster too.”
Not going to lie, guys… this was a hard conversation to have. I’ve dealt with abuse victims before and that self blame is a very real thing. It’s heartbreaking to watch happen.
This wasn’t an actress or business woman… this was a mother trying to protect her kid.
I’m sure I’ll remember more things as people start discussing… but yeah… wow.
To summarize… Sarah is about to be iced by OSDM (or whomever is in charge) and it’s Noah’s fault and she wants to save her kid.
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For those of us that went to Focus Group, I wouldn’t say we really saw a “robotic” Sarah in the first place. She basically seemed like she was set on performing a task and impressing her superiors and Noah, in apparently typical fashion, showed up to wreck it. You could tell they had a connection still, however strained, at least at that initial meeting when we saw them. She was all business, and now the business is failing around her, and she has to resort to letting the facade drop to try and get some help, perhaps.
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Wow, brutal.
Though this part confuses me a little:
And when I say that she said “Noah is killing me” I believe she meant it literally. As her main reason for calling me was for me to let people know that Timothy (their son) is 100% Noahs. She wants to make sure that if/when she goes missing that people know that the bloodline is still connected Noah and that her son, despite her mistakes, doesn’t deserve to die.
So Noah’s antics are the fault if she gets the axe (literally?), but that her son being Noah’s is a selling point in not hurting him? Does that imply that whomever it is that would bring harm upon her would not do anything to damage Noah, as in he’s the golden boy, despite him being her demise for not acting accordingly?
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I have 2 thoughts about this
1) If what she says is true, it’s about time Noah got his balls back and practice what he preaches. Take what’s yours brother!
2) Why are we so quick to jump and believe what Sarah says? She’s shown to be manipulative and with leaked emails shows she really doesn’t care about Noah anyways. What if she’s full of shit and just trying to get sympathy from whoever will listen?
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@mike If she wanted to find a sympathetic ear, she would have called @julierei or @taysavestheday.
Reaching out to @thebuz speaks volumes.
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@lilmsfancpants not true. @thebuz has been on the Sinclair train too. She went to one of her own.
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EXACTLY @pandace88
All the reason why I honestly don’t believe a bit what Sarah is saying and is merely reacting in part to @mike speculating that Tim isn’t Noah’s son on the recent MHL podcast.
But just in case, Sarah, because I know you read this:
If you’re in LA City, go any to these places and get some help.
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@lilmsfancpants; I may provide a sympathetic ear, but that doesn’t mean I’ll believe anyone outright just because they showed me emotion or because I find a kindred spirit in someone. I know how I am, and that makes me all the more cautious with Sarah. I believe in being there for people in need, for reaching out and offering help. I’ll do that with anyone, even if they are an enemy.
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Not necessary @lilmsfancpants. She already has them on her side. She needed to reach out to someone who needed just a tad more convincing.
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@lilmsfancpants Suck it, homewrecker!
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@julierei hahaha touche.
I just hope Sarah’s not… crying wolf.
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Hmmm, this is interesting. Considering @taysavestheday got a similar “heartwrenching” call and we didn’t really react as a community – as far as I’m aware. A second attempt to gain sympathy? Using a mod… I am one of the most sympathetic/empathetic people, as my close friends can testify, so I would normally be all over this. But something doesn’t sit right with me…
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I just hope Sarah’s not… crying wolf.
THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS
I’ve seen too many of her secret replies to emails where she shows her true colors to believe her outright.
This very well may be the truth, but she’s been too sloppy in showing us both sides for me to accept this immediately. -
Eh, sus. Sarah’s a great actress. I would know.
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That is one hell of a conversation to have Buz, I don’t envy your position. If @thebuz isn’t being manipulated and Sarah is just reaching out for sympathy/and “shoulder to cry on” I understand that.
BUT (here’s where I groan a bit)
If she genuinely believes that she’s going to be killed, go to the police, Sarah Sinclair. :-/
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Although it’s difficult to swallow some of what was shared as a victim of abuse, I do have to say it’s hard to trust Sarah when she hasn’t quite shown herself to be a trustworthy person.
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@mkarrett, the police don’t have a solid track record on handling abuse cases well. Not sure she’d go to the police knowing that.
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Look,
I’m not one to accept feux bullshit, and there is absolutely the possibility that she is manipulating me…
But here’s why I don’t think thats the case. She didn’t attack Noah right off the bat. I’ll lead her to that place in the conversation. She actually said it was all her fault. She sounded remorseful and broken.
Her agenda was to protect her son. And she still said nice things about Noah, and how much she loved him despite “being daddy’s favorite”, this term was used by her in the phone call.
At the end of the day I’d much prefer to believe her and be wrong than to not and be wrong.
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Don’t forget, I received an email from A. Friend who also believes Sarah.
And instructed me that they are always listening–with the recording attached.
If the OSDM or the investors are listening to all our calls, and A. Friend is a rogue agent within–he believes Sarah. I think that speaks volumes beyond any call she could make.
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OSDM hitmen are unreliable, if the “cleaner” that called me at the end of Ascension is anything to go by.
P.S. to OSDM: Good cleaners don’t call first.
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I think we might be taking this more literally than we’re supposed to. Noah is not the one in charge and I don’t believe he is the one she fears violence from. To me, this reads like Noah’s actions are about to have dire consequences, and Sarah will be going down with the ship, but I read nothing here to suggest Noah won’t get the same. Her fear is in what’s above. Especially since she mentioned the son and the bloodline, that sounds very much like Noah isn’t long for this world as well. Why care about the bloodline of the son if the father is safe and sound to sire more? Noah’s selfishness and inability to stick to SI’s status quo have put him in danger as the instigator and her in danger as the one whose job it was to keep her in line. After all that’s happened, it would make no sense for him to now be in a position to directly get rid of her. At the very least, Noah will face the wrath of a much more vicious handler. If Sarah is on her way out, Noah is the cause but not the means of her demise.
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@lilmsfancpants Definitely a little weird. @thebuz did she Timothy was their kid or just 100% Noah’s kid?
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We’ve found both Sarah and Noah to be master manipulators, so I don’t buy it unless we as a group see something serious happen to her. I’m sure she has @thebuz right where she wants him. I don’t believe any of this BS. Please Sarah and Noah convince me that I should believe you both!!
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@macbethinabathtub that’s how I understood it as well. She claims Noah has screwed them both, as far as she sees it.
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Maybe I’m heartless, but I don’t feel bad for her. Either 1) she is looking to play to emotion to get people back on her side, or 2) it’s real and she’s now dealing with the consequences of her actions. Of course theres option 3) this whole thing is a ploy by the OSDM to get under our skin and distract us further. Think of it, we were just contacted by someone who appears to be OSDM, who suggests what’s going on with Noah isn’t real (Do you believe everything that’s happened?) and we go right back to becoming invested in Noah and Sarah’s situation.
All that being said, even IF she’s being upfront and honest and this is happening to her, I still find it hard to feel bad for her. She’s ran smear campaigns, tried to feed us lies, and has not once been forward with the purpose of The System. I don’t see this as Noah abusing Sarah, but rather Sarah’s actions catching up to her.
But what do I know, I feel like I’m proven wrong about my thoughts on the events going on every other day.
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@macbethinabathtub, that was the message I ascertained from my phone call with her. She said he’s going to replace her. It sounded bigger than just Noah going to get rid of her. Sounds like she is going to replaced by the higher ups. Sarah values power–take away her position and what is she? This is how she defines herself. She’d be broken.
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It could be an act, but what does she have to gain? Our sympathies? And if Sarah disappears, but the event continues on 5/1, how weird is that? There was a consensus vibe that while Noah was off gallivanting, Sarah was running the show, but answering to someone else. If she poofs out of existence, and things go unchanged, I feel that reveals a much bigger machination at play.
Besides, she didn’t ask for saving. She didn’t tell @thebuz to drop whatever he was doing and drive to whereever. She didn’t ask for help.She didn’t tell him about a drop-off. She didn’t ask for anything.
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This whole thing conflicts me because I loved Noah the same reason Joffrey is my favorite character in GOT… entertaining to watch. But I’m also someone who has dealt with abuse and I will always believe someone who says they’re going through something. So this sucks, because I believe her.
Which may be what she wanted to happen. And it worked, for me at least.This whole “killing” and “dying” thing with her and Timothy is really alarming though because it’s so extreme. I don’t think Noah would be the person who would do it by any means; but who and why?
Also just to say it, thinking that Timothy is Noah’s son, but not necessarily Sarah’s. Thinking Sarah is Noah’s iConfidant, an early version.
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Why care about the bloodline of the son if the father is safe and sound to sire more?
Because Timothy is their son and she loves her son and a mother who loves their child wants everything for them. She doesn’t want her son disregarded like trash just because he’s half hers.
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Sure @pandace88, I meant that more to mean why would the kid matter to anyone ELSE? She seems to think the truth of his bloodline would save him from a similar fate. But why would that matter so much to the aggressors if they still have Noah around? If they think they’ll need a backup Sinclair, that doesn’t bode well for Noah.
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@theladyj If you can MAKE people want to help you, you don’t need to ask people to help you. Play with their sympathies and they’ll bend over backwards for you. I’ve unfortunately seen this happen with those I care for before.
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@macbethinabathtub said
I meant that more to mean why would the kid matter to anyone ELSE?
Maybe there’s some sort of Blade/Daywalker thing going on. If there are AI components to this story, maybe Timmy is the first successful hybrid.
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Timmy = IT?
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Well what could be gained like @theladyj said is our sympathies. If we are sympathetic towards her, then those who have loyalties to Noah’s message is less.
I have my own opinions on Sarah and Noah both, but I keep thinking of what happened at the end of the Boy Who Cried Wolf. If Sarah truly is a manipulator, or Noah is truly just trying to kill her for what ever reason. That doesn’t concern me much. You reap what you sow.
The issue I have is the kid. Why would she say that he “doesn’t deserve to die.” Regardless of what my stance is on this whole… Thing… That is going on right now gets thrown to the curb. No child, I don’t care if they are a trouble maker, a brawler, a thief, possessed, or even a clone or robot (the last one, ok I may be a bit flexible on). But NO CHILD deserves to have their lives threatened by ANYONE for ANY reason. If I ever saw that happen with my own eyes I swear I would not have any regret spending the rest of my life in jail to end theirs. So as I said no matter what my stance is on Noah, the System, Sarah, IConfidant is doesn’t matter. My main focus is, if there is anything at all I can find, do, or say, to ensure that the child remains safe. I will.
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@mkarrett – Very possible! Maybe it’s some test tube baby type cyborg. That would definitely classify it as an “IT”
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Is this the first time we’ve heard Sarah talk about Timothy? (I know he was mentioned on the periscope, but it felt sort of like an “oh, yeah, sure that’s a thing, ok”)
I had an ex-boyfriend that used to talk about this family of incredible people (disney princess, sponsored snow boarder, street racer, etc. dad was an FBI agent or something). Each one had a myspace with only one photo. I never met them, and never saw any other pictures of them. I was convinced the were made-up. One day, this ex-boyfriend looks down at his phone and starts FREAKING OUT- OUT OF NOWHERE. BAWLING. In public. I was convinced one of his parents had died. I asked him what was wrong and his response still leaves me wondering what happened- to this day. He said that James, (the street racer one) had been in an accident. He said they found car parts, but couldn’t find his body. He was convinced he was dead. I did not know this ex-boyfriend to be an actor, but I was still of the belief that this family was fictional. How was he so distraught over fictional people? The next day, he was fine, he said they found James’ body and that he was just in a coma and would wake up soon. He did not go visit him. I saw no images of anyone in a hospital. Didn’t even see pictures of the wrecked car. But the way he was responding to whatever on his phone leaves me with so many questions.
What I’m saying (besides the fact that I dated an insane person for like, two years) is that, whatever happened on these calls, Sarah is distraught. I believe she is terrified and distraught. But I’m not convinced this son exists. And if he doesn’t, I’m curious to know what Sarah is REALLY afraid of.
Obviously, I don’t want to see any hard come to Sarah or the son, if he does indeed exist. But I believe it would take a lot for Sarah to drop her business face and I think we should all be a little wary or whatever it is that’s got her making these calls.
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Wow, I step away from the forums for two days and all this happens.
Like many of you, I’m having a hard time believing her due to her past manipulation tactics.
However, I could definitely see noah’s antics getting her in trouble with the higher ups, as she would be the one to answer to them if they saw The System failing. She’s responsible for reigning Noah in, and she’s failed to due so.
I wouldn’t be surprised if The Investor’s had them both killed and purged The System all together.
But, the mentioning of her kid is definitely alarming. As I said last week – I’ve been worried for his safety and well being during this whole mess. We’ve never actually seen him or even heard him speak, and Noah did say he’s “a fucking retard.”
That comment and the whole IT thing, and Lusts post about power being handed down by blood doesn’t bode well with me.
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@sfire8 I’d say trying to discredit a person who’s done nothing wrong with a smear campaign is a bit more than being “kind of a bitch”. Just sayin’.
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Man,
This whole thread reads how people reacted to the Nicole Simpson letters about OJ’s abuse.
Few things:
@mkarrett She didn’t emphasize IT, just just said tried to make it with Grannik. Which I took as her trying to start a relationship with him.I asked her point blank why she thinks this is all happening and she responded with: “I don’t know, because I tried to control him?”
She wasn’t sobbing. This wasn’t a rush to make some scripted points she had to get out… it was a full on conversation that wasn’t one sided. More than anything she just sounded dejected.
@creepsociety I think this was her last resort.At the end of the day no matter how dark someone can get, these people are still human and I wouldn’t wish death on any of them.
As I said before, I’d much rather believe her and be wrong.
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@theladyj, thank you. I got Jackie’d!! I got Jackie’d!!
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Soon to be little Timmy.
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Very confused over the call. The reason I attended the focus group was to get a sense of why The System really did not “speak” to me and see if an in person encounter would change my mind.
It did not, overall. However, I sensed (near the end) that Sarah was a woman with a mission and strong intention. At the end, when I looked her in the eye and asked “Are you okay?” I got no easily readable response. I sense she is used to shielding her genuine emotions so if this call seemed sincere, I think it was possibly a leap of faith for her to make.
For her to reach out to @thebuz is not a surprise to me, though. Buz brought to that meeting what, I feel, she was looking for that day. She may see Buz as a stronger ally than @julierei or @taysavestheday because he is more independent than they may appear to be at this moment.
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I hope you’re wrong @mike, if Macy said that she just wants to move on from this then she needs to practice what she preaches. I’ll be watching VERY carefully.
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@mkarrett – Ordinarily yes. Perhaps she said that she just wants to move on because she knew she couldn’t take them down “as is”, but now with this phone call…as well as Noah’s…they seem to be crumbling and this seems like prime time to use what she’s learned to make them crumble even further 🙂
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@russell said:
For her to reach out to @thebuz is not a surprise to me, though. Buz brought to that meeting what, I feel, she was looking for that day. She may see Buz as a stronger ally than @julierei or @taysavestheday because he is more independent than they may appear to be at this moment.
You’re sweet, pal.
I was pondering why she thought I was the best person to do this and there are a whole lot of reasons.
The most obvious one is that I sent her an email last Friday somewhat reiterating what I put in that video I made for them because even though its a bullshitty commercial for their business… I do sincerely believe the things I said about humanity. And I told her as such, and that it will always be darkest before for the dawn but that she can take it and she will keep moving forward because she’s not one to be broken. And I said “And you never have to do it alone, if you need a hand in anything, I’m only a phone call away.”
So that’s the more surface layered reason. However there’s other stuff too. The fact that the call was about her kid. Well… I’m not entirely open about it in public but with Tension I was very honest about my own Mom issues. I was essentially abandoned by my mom when I was about 4, and though she really thought she was doing the best thing for me (leaving me with my more financially stable father, who’s awesome in his own right) it still messed me up quite a bit. A whole lot of my own personal issues of self hatred and low self esteem (think that Fresh Prince episode where Will says to Uncle Phil ‘Why doesn’t he want me, man!?) stem directly from that. And I was quite open about it in my questionnaire and to characters during Indoctrination and Ascension. And honestly Tension significantly helped with my relationship with my mother, and I will always be thankful for that.
So… if she has a file on me… well it would make sense that I would be sympathetic to her kid (not necessarily her).
In reality I was always Little Foot running towards Mom’s shadow. And it breaks my fucking heart that Timothy may have to go through the same thing. And if I can do one fucking thing for Sarah it’d be to let that kid know that his mom did everything she could to help him.
brb gonna go listen to “Somewhere out there” from American Tail and sob.
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@mkarrett omg I was thinking that scene too!! Ughhh ??
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To bring this back into focus:
Timothy is Noah’s bloodline, meaning they won’t kill him too.
I believe Sarah was insinuating that whoever was in charge was getting rid of Sarah and what they may think is a bastard kid.
She wanted people to know that Timothy shares Noah’s blood and shouldn’t be hurt for her mistakes.
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@blondie Cool link. Cool cool cool.
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@hazelverse said:
Does it keep him safe or endanger him?
It would seem that Noah is someones favorite and won’t be touched. And with Timothy 100% being Noah’s he should be safe as well.
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God my heart breaks for Sarah more every day. I wasn’t there for Tension but wasn’t it said that Addison was created to instill sympathetic and “protective” feelings in people, or certain people at least? Cause I think Sarah might be my Addison. I just hope that whatever Noah has been pulling doesn’t put her in the ground. Although I will say, to echo other people with the same sentiment, that if this turns out to be a total fabrication meant to manipulate Buz based on what he was just good enough to share with us, that might be downright unforgivable.
What really intrigues me though is the Timothy business, and the whole thing about Noah’s bloodline. I kind of assumed that Noah and Sarah were just employees, however high-ranking. What would be so special about Noah’s bloodline that it would have any relevance to anyone, especially someone so nefarious as whoever might be looking to ice one or both of the Sinclairs? Time will tell, but it looks like Marcos’ crack about Noah not having any consequences might be a pretty loaded one in retrospect.
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It’s worth recalling a few things:
1) That OSDM appears to be the primary villain here, and that — in a scene @mike and I witnessed (and others, I think) — Noah chewed out Samson because he, Mike, I, and The One had fucked up all the data collection and made it worthless. These weren’t rants. He spoke not as the Top Dog, but as an underling leading this project and that shit would roll downhill to him.
2) Perhaps think about The Fucking Little Cockroach Theory If anyone is playing on our sympathies, it’s Noah. He couldn’t escape into Western Europe, so he’s getting some of us to come to Switzerland. When you have nothing to lose, act like a maniac, hope like attracts like, and build an army to defend against your impending assassination.
3) As for Sarah, I wonder if The System was her throwing herself in front of the train to save him (“You should not have to rip yourself into pieces to keep others whole”). As others have suggested, perhaps The System was a way to mollify OSDM. Noah isn’t interested in mollifying them. He either wants to destroy them, or take over. He hit Bryan because Bryan is an “influencer”. He’s seducing @lilmsfancpants and @meghanmayhem. This would explain his drunkenness, and Sarah’s desperate attempts to right the ship since she believes she’s trying to save him.
4) More likely, it’s all a distraction. Noah and Sarah are pawns in a much larger game, possibly even willing ones. OSDM has always been about OOA — Object Oriented Analysis — introducing stimuli into a SYSTEM and watching how it reacts in order to continually refine an algorithm. WE ARE THE SYSTEM, people. Who do we side with, and why? Who is tickled by Noah? Sympathizes for Sarah? Is turned off by her? Cares about “Timothy”?
And you know the only way to find out? Let them lead us into the darkness.
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Pretty sure @larry just dropped the proverbial mic right there. You just summed up thoughts I’ve been trying to organize in my head for awhile. I don’t feel bad for them because I’ve been kinda working under the assumption that most of what they’re selling is a distraction, a fabrication in order to test us. I’ve become team “burn it down” because I see this as just a straw man. We’re getting played for more data.
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