In Defense of Emotion & Understanding Joyce

This topic has 12 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 9 months ago by Megan.

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    • #19604

      Oh no it’s Megan and another one of her weird posts…

      , @kevin, @bcbishop, @kortneydarling, @wanda102, @mumumusings, @mkarrett, @coryphella, and @meghanmayhem

      I’ve been thinking about these 9 players and what prompted @joycecarlberg to want to meet with all of them (us). I’ve also been thinking about what Joyce said to Bryan about his anger, and wondering if there is an emotional counterpoint to Taylor’s intellect-is-everything club. I don’t think that this is all as simple as intellect vs emotion. But I think a lot of people have read Joyce wrong and the above list of names was in no way random, based on their responses to her demand:

      Prove to me why I should meet with any of you this week so that you may help me to help you.

      The responses from those who were chosen are interesting. From Melissa:

      that’s an interesting prospect but…exactly how can we prove that we are worthy of your audience?

      From Bryan:

      The question becomes what you’re offering this time. And I know the only way to discover that is to buckle the fuck up and take the ride

      From Mustafa:

      I guess you’re not going to show your hand until we start to show ours. So I guess I’ll bite, though my answer might not be the most satisfactory.


      Work smarter, not harder they say.
      Joyce, you wanted focus, you wanted attention? You got it.


      So you’ve got superiors who clearly want something out of this. Maybe there’s an acceptable margin for that connection, but do you get paid if that connection falls apart completely? Surely ‘they’ wouldn’t be very happy if whatever you’re doing is a failure.


      his anger isn’t fake. It’s just clouding his ability to see that this kind of reaction is exactly what Joyce is chiding people for. She’s got her hands to her chest too…I think she’s actually hiding behind them and laughing.

      And Cara:

      I personally like to see a return on my investments. I eagerly await such returns if in fact they will be forthcoming. Here’s hoping I haven’t squandered my valuable time…

      These responses share something – they are reasoned and balanced. They don’t attack. They don’t mock. They simply answer the question on her level, perhaps as her peer. And they do it all without showing their hand fully.

      Mine was rather murky – it was part this, and part “I’m not going to prove anything,” which others said too, and it didn’t get them far. Perhaps that’s why my name was initially left off both lists, and then later added to her “chosen” list? Who knows.

      When I met Joyce on Sunday night, I asked her if I could ask a question. Her response was “no, dear.” This is a woman who is not showing anyone her hand yet, if ever. And my guess is she respects those who do the same.

      The other thing I noticed about her on Sunday was just how furious she was when she walked into Bryan’s house. She was angry and yelling at Bryan, demanding to know if he knew, or what he knew, about TMC/the resistance’s meeting. It took her a minute to calm down, but she did. And she left calm.

      This also reminded me of Bryan’s meeting with Joyce and the prostitute (does she have a name FFS????) because it was then that she mentioned he had “violence” in him that could be useful to them.

      And Joyce asked me to help her – I’ve admitted to being on the “side” of emotion, if we’re choosing those sides. I feel very deeply though my emotions aren’t as readily accessible as Bryan’s are for him. Looking at the others on this list, I can only guess about most of them though I have a sense about a couple. These may also be people who are good at balancing their emotions and passions with reason, just like Joyce, who walked in furious and was able to get it under control. I can see where that anger in her probably gets shit done – whether it’s shit we like or not, remains to be seen. But I live most of my life in that state, channeling anger or other emotions into work. I get it. Anyone who knows me knows that I am always making art, teaching, or writing, working on multiple projects at once. I get shit done too.

      Cold hard emotionless intellect isn’t everything.

    • #19607

      @coryphella I’m delighted to have been included amongst your quotes. Even more so to be considered “reasoned and balanced” (my Mom would be so proud) but, just a point of clarification. I have never been contacted by @joycecarlberg In fact, the reason I was selected for The Midnight Commission was, as far as I know, simply because I solved a cipher and emailed the correct phrase in time. Unless I’m misunderstanding your reason for including me in this list. Either way, I’m just tickled to be included regardless. ?

    • #19608

      @chrysalis359 – oh crap – I was confusing you with Chloe, I’m sorry!

    • #19609

      And obviously Meghan’s on this list and she’s in the resistance – this list is just that list of 9 people that Joyce chose a couple of weeks ago, before narrowing it down to meet with Kevin, Cristen, and Bryan. I don’t think that being in TMC or the resistance precludes you being here. I’m just looking at why she chose those people, based on their responses to her question.

    • #19610

      Ha! It’s ok, @coryphella! I still like that I got called “reasoned and balanced” even if it was by accident. ?

    • #19616

      @chrysalis359 I’m sure it wasn’t entirely by accident. Nothing is random.

    • #19617

      I want to say my initial response to Joyce, and in that sense my continued response to her, was that she should consult with me out of curiosity as to what I can do for her. The response you quoted came later in reaction to some initial backlash to her presence, but still very much reflects my dialogue with her.

      You make a valid point: I am certainly guilty of letting my emotion hop in front of logic from time to time, but reason always sneaks its way into the equation. I think people capable of compartmentalizing their emotions, yet still accessing them, are particularly valuable to Joyce and her associates.

    • #19618
       Bryan Bishop

      I find the conversation about emotion vs. intellect to be fascinating, because at this point in The Experience I feel like it’s often analogous to emotional truth vs. strategy.

      There are a lot of different ways to go through this experience and none are right or wrong. But that notion of “being present” has always struck me as essential. In Tension: Ascension the rhetoric amounted to setting aside our phones and digital distractions so we could be present and authentic in an actual physical moment. If we weren’t focused on the immediacy of those moments, Simon wouldn’t have an impact. The Handlers wouldn’t have had an impact. The Proscessors wouldn’t have had an impact. We needed to be there, be aware, and be vulnerable – otherwise we might as well just be watching a movie, safely at arms length.

      However, a different dynamic is in play during this months-long buildup (and I imagine it was the same during Indoctrination?). We’re blindly putting together pieces of a puzzle, unsure of the larger picture, and that inherently demands we put our intellect into play to make sense of things. Otherwise we just respond to random stimuli, jumping from moment to moment, without any sense of self or real agency.

      During this build up, I need to use my intellect to figure out where I stand. The same with everyone else. We’re already using both heart and mind, because otherwise we wouldn’t be able to invest in any side. (Granted, not everyone has picked a side – and we can also decide to align ourselves with a faction for purely reactive reasons rather than thought-out ones.)

      But if I’m looking for a shared theme in the crew that Joyce originally talked to, it’s that she picked people that were not knee-jerk locked to any kind of orthodoxy. In this case it was anyone that was willing to talk without immediately rejecting her due to potential OSDM connections.

      I’m getting a little rambly, but I bring it up because I’d like to think that those of us that gave her a chance were willing to combine head and heart – to give her a chance without immediately rejecting her.

      Telling Joyce off, or refusing to interact with her, strikes me as a purely emotional reaction. I think a lot of us that support the work of the OSDM feel that way about the BOS in general: it appears to be a group rebelling just because rebelling feels good.

      I know that is NOT how members of BOS feel in the slightest, so I don’t say that to pick a fight or hurl accusations. I’m only trying to illustrate that the perception of what’s an emotional reaction vs. an intellectual one depends – as do all things – on the point of view of the individual.

    • #19619
       Taylor Winters

      We should always hear both sides of any story before we make an assessment. Making a snap judgement based on partial information is sometimes necessarily, but if we can take a step back, divorce ourselves from the emotions clouding our judgement, and really listen, then we will all be in a better place.

      There was a model I learned about in my ethics class, aptly named the Tension Model. In this analysis, you ever come across a decision, you should consider one option–and then a second option at the opposite end of the spectrum–one that places the most tension on the problem. By essentially playing “Devil’s Advocate” with yourself, you consider more than one option, and often one that is outside of your normal line of thinking and comfort zone.

      The more information I have, the more informed my decisions are. I was glad I was at The Midnight Commission event, and I am glad I have listened to the OSDM every opportunity I have been given.

    • #19620

      To tell the truth, I have no idea why I was in Joyce’s selection of people. I hadn’t participated in Tension, and I haven’t really communicated with any of the OSDM or Anoch followers besides Sabrina with iConfidant. I think it might be because of that though, that she wanted to talk with people without super close OSDM connections.

      I’m siding with the Resistance, but I am always willing to discuss and see the other side of things, even if they seem bleak.

    • #19621

      @chloe I think the answer is really in how we interacted with her which is what I was saying. I don’t think it had anything to do with who did or didn’t do Tension (Melissa and I were core players of Tension but the others were new) who were followers of Anoch (the only person in the OOA I ever communicated with died-slash-mysteriously-vanished in June, but Bryan has had close connections with Sabrina)…does anyone have ties to OSDM? Obviously Meghan had ties to Noah already.

      She chose us because of how we responded to her in that moment, in that thread. I’m fairly certain of it. She asked us to prove to her why we deserved it and in our responses, the nine of us did.

      I think this is important to keep in mind moving into the next chapter, especially if you’re wanting to engage more with the whole thing. I don’t believe that Joyce had a pre-selected group of people she wanted to meet. We made up her mind for her with our actions. Choices have consequences and how we behave is a choice.

      But what do I know, I called a guy a dick to his face today so it’s not like I understand people or anything.

    • #19622
       Bryan Bishop

      But wait @coryphella – did the guy ask you to join a cult after you called him a dick? This could be important.

    • #19623

      No I watched him stumble through an apology for why he called us slobs after costing us 2 hours of tech time. Without emotion.

      • This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Megan.
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