July 29, 2017 at 2:57 pm #20852
Here! Go discuss! (I’m going back to my whiskey.)
July 29, 2017 at 3:00 pm #20853Anonymous
How’d everyone make an impact today?
July 29, 2017 at 3:04 pm #20854
The resistance took Noah’s cash and bought some beer.
Then we took twice as much of our own money and bought beer for the whole bar. And tipped the bartender very well.
And then I personally gave my sack lunch to a dude jerking it into another brown bag.
July 29, 2017 at 3:05 pm #20855
We’re drinking whiskey so I’ll keep this short. One of you lovelies can expand.
We were lined up. Asked to hand over to another participant something material that was important to us.
Then we were all given varying denominations of money and told me had 30min to make a difference.
BOS banded together. We pooled our money and went to the nearest bar. We bought ourselves each a beer with System money. Tipped the bartender well. Then we took money out of the ATM and used our own money to buy a beer for every single stranger in the bar, and used the rest to again tip the bartender well.
I was asked what we did with the money. I explained and was told to try harder. I was given another $20.
I went out side and thought. What matters most to me? Friendship. Material things come and go. Friendship is most important. So I sent the $20 to my friend Morgan. Because the one thing they can’t take from me is my friendships. The thing that will save us all in our darkest times.
Later we were told we would meet a man outside who would have something for ua that we would know what to do with.
It was @111error. He had boxes of bagged lunches. Each of us took one and handed them out to the numerous homeless in the area.
…and now we drink whiskey. Neat.
July 29, 2017 at 3:16 pm #20856MaddyxxxParticipant
You were told to rethink the value and perception of the tools that you have in your life…
We gave you these tools and told you to make the greatest impact you could out of them.
Not for feel goods or get your rocks off jollies but to give you the opportunity to show that you had the ability, that you were the person who could make the most out of what was given and begin to understand that VALUE IS A PERCEPTION.
Nothing on this earth has a 1 to 1 ratio.
At the end no matter what your choices where, you were given the opportunity to have roughly the equivalent of the money previously given in a single sack lunch. Why?
We saw the value that that had for the less fortunate person the other day. Here was your chance to possibly see it for yourself. To learn. We warned you, do not do this to feel good. That is a distraction, do this to learn the perception of value.
How you can make the most impact for yourself and for those around you? How can you be as effective as fucking possible with the tools that YOU have. That you ALREADY have. Not waiting for tomorrow, not wishing something would change but the TOOLS THAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOUR FUCKING FACE. Five dollars, a sack lunch, your own legs and your own mind.
ACTUALIZE your effectiveness!
Now, some of you after hearing this lesson and this plan threw that lunch in the street believing that was against what I believe…
Let me clear something up right now, I believe that doing that makes you a fucking worthless piece of shit. Did you hear me? A worthless. Fucking. Piece. Of. Shit.
You own that, that’s on you but you are dead to me and The System. Forever.
Did we do this to publicize off the back of the less fortunate?
We said go make a difference and hash tag it. We asked you to make a difference and hashtag, tweet, or periscope how you were able to make a change.
Those of you who fed the homeless and showed you were making a difference? I don’t care if rainbow rockets shot out of their ass after I put in a magic juju bean that made them collectively spell my name across the sky.
Make an impact, make a difference, utilize your strengths and tools as effectively as possible.
Don’t be a fucking cynic and a constant, never ending fucking critic, always unhappy that your supposed expectations of what you think you want weren’t met. You are the shit of the earth and I’ll spend my dying breath making money off the salt of your tears.
Either you learned something or you didn’t to day. I certainly learned more than I wanted to.
July 29, 2017 at 3:17 pm #20857KINGKILL33Participant
Real quick breakdown, got handed some money from Sarah and was told by Andy to do something with it to make a difference with your day. I’m not a fool and if handed free money, I’m gonna take it and do what I want with it. Hence me buying a beer at the bar across the street. Thanks Noah! Take what’s mine, you gave me the money, and I’m doing what I want with it.
Secondly, we were dismissed after coming back from being handed money. We had 30 minutes for that mission. Then we were told to meet someone outside that we would know what to do. It was Morgan handing out lunches. I don’t believe in free handouts and as much as everyone wants to gush about doing something good, it’s so selfish. I chucked that sack lunch so far. I then went up to Andy and asked him to please pass a message to Noah for me. “Please tell Noah that this is all a crock of shit. It’s totally against what he preaches, it’s “take what’s yours” and not “give away what you got”. Andy asked for my name and that was that.
Although everyone wanted to do something good hearted and help people, I think I was the only one to say fuck them all and do what you want: indulge.
And I don’t feel guilty about it at all…
July 29, 2017 at 3:20 pm #20858ChrisParticipant
Something seems amiss here. I love what we did today and am grateful that we were provided the means to do it, but the ethos of not only the System but also @111error‘s Resistance is in question now. I like Noah’s explanation above, but this definitely complicates things. Only a couple of people tried to do it the “classic System” way, and ironically those were all “Resistance” people, and it feels like they were shut down, given the second phase of the afternoon. Speaking of which, how can Morgan, the leader of the new BoS that includes Stacey, Macy, and Jenna, be so quick to attempt a compact with Noah Sinclair to the point where he’s willing to travel somewhere at Noah’s behest without even knowing what he’s doing? Is the Resistance already over? Is Morgan an errand boy for Noah Sinclair? Was this nothing but a PR stunt made to make the System look benevolent and the Resistance petty and selfish? Or is this all clear proof of a continuing fundamental difference between the System and the OSDM as a whole? @meghanmayhem‘s hopes of a Noah independent of Horace’s agenda? I don’t think today was what anyone was expecting, but they’ve got my attention.
July 29, 2017 at 3:21 pm #20859
July 29, 2017 at 3:22 pm #20860MarandaParticipant
From the perspective of someone who wasn’t there, I can see both good and bad in what went down today. On one hand, we are being reminded that a lot needs to be done to alleviate the suffering of the less fortunate. On the other, as @superstar said in the Slack group, today’s charity was all just a show, meant to promote The System. @nothenrygale posted a very relevant verse, Matthew 6:2-4.
I have a proposition for everyone who went to the seminar. Perform an act of charity this week, and tell no one. Do good because it’s the right thing to do.
July 29, 2017 at 3:36 pm #20862MarandaParticipant
@maddyxxx Reading through the post you made above, I think the intended lesson of “how to be as effective as possible with what you already have” was good in its intention, and a perfectly valid piece of life advice regardless of what The System might have to offer next. But the way you went about teaching it left a lot of room for alternate interpretations (as you’ve seen) and room for people to miss the point. You could have avoided this by 1) not having people broadcast their acts, and 2) debriefing everyone after the 30 minutes were up to reinforce the intended message. Then again of course, I wasn’t there and can’t pretend to know how it all went down, and second, as we all know, hindsight is 20/20.
July 29, 2017 at 3:41 pm #20863Brad RuweParticipant
OK guys, been thinking a bit more on this. Yes, what happened today does leave a bad taste in my mouth, because I do inherently believe you shouldn’t brag about helping others. I personally believe you should help those in need because they need help, rather than using it as a way to make yourself look good.
After seeing exactly what The System said to do, it is true that it wasn’t explicitly said to video tape giving these people food and water. When the videos first started going out, I of course was going under the assumption that this was what was asked of everyone. My phone lit up with several Periscopes so it seemed like this was the task.
@thebuz did bring up a good point in the Slack though. Even though the most obvious option to some would be to help out the homeless in the area, it sounds like that was not the directive. Possible misunderstanding between The System and participants, sure. But hearing exactly what was said by The System, I don’t think this was their goal.
I’m still not supporting The System, not by a long shot. I still feel personally uneasy about what happened today. But I don’t think the intent of today was to turn homeless people into entertainment. At first it did seem that way to me, not having the full story with what exactly the directive was. It’s sounding like this was more of a misunderstanding between parties.
And to whomever threw the food in the street, what the hell. Seriously.
July 29, 2017 at 3:47 pm #20864
As I was going about Noah’s bidding today and passing out water bottles and bagged lunches to the homeless, something struck me… The System/BOS/OSDM didn’t matter. We didn’t matter. The only thing that mattered was what was right in front of our faces. This was about confronting something that we hate to see on a daily basis and making an impact.
Also, I am rather appalled by the actions of BOS/Resistance members today. This was your chance to show that you were more than smug, selfish people who just play into the counter-culture for the hell of it.
BOS took their cash to a bar and made “bros” with day drinkers. When given another chance and even more money to make a difference, they Venmo the Resistance leader as a bribe? Hell, @nothenrygale took his System refund, and instead of learning something and trying to make a difference on his own, he bought himself booze on Periscope. The only person I saw who did something good was @daela, who took her money to a women’s shelter. Today’s action have put a seriously bad taste in my mouth regarding the Resistance.
Today was not the day to act “bold” or “different” or to curry favor with anyone. We were in the middle of skid row, surrounded by hundreds of tortured, less fortunate souls. The only right thing to do was the obvious thing: Acts of kindness lift the spirits of the people we look blindly past on our privileged day-to-day existences.
Oh, and to anyone who says this stunt was exploitive: Need I remind you that you just spent anywhere from $30-$100 on a seminar FOR YOURSELF. Maybe now isn’t the time to start pointing fingers.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Andrew Kasch.
July 29, 2017 at 3:53 pm #20866
@kasch Our directive was not to “help those less fortunate than us.”
Our directive was to make a difference.
We put a smile on the faces of strangers whom we may never see again. We did it on our own terms. We helped ourselves while also helping our fellow man.
A subtle nod to a stranger can make a world of difference. Helping the less fortunate is very important…and I appauld those who did that. But making a difference isn’t always handing out money and food and water to the homeless. Sometimes whether we realize it or not, just the simple kindness of a stranger can change everything.
I will not apologize for that.
July 29, 2017 at 3:54 pm #20867
Wow, this is all crazy. I just feel like people are upset because they want to control the narrative and get pissed off when things don’t go how they expected they would or characters or groups aren’t acting like how they want them to. Weren’t we told to let go of our expectations today? I honestly enjoyed my time with The System today…and I felt like in just 1.5 hours I made an impact and my time was certainly not wasted. I met three new participants today and that was awesome. I loved talking to the lap dance guys, they were funny and totally game and I think we made their day! If value is perception, then talking to people on the street was of way more value than the ten dollars we gave for the lap dance. Lesson learned.
Yes, nobody told anybody what to do with the money or the lunches, just to make an impact. I would like to know more about how Morgan and Noah worked things out and how they are going to work together in the future??
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Sage.
July 29, 2017 at 4:08 pm #20869
Correct. Our instructions were deliberately vague. We could do whatever the fuck we wanted.
But it was our actions that determined our characters today. And BOS did not come out looking good IMO.
Does that make me a sanctimonious asshole? Maybe. Maybe not. I just saw today as a chance to do something greater than “play a game” or “impress the boss.”
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Andrew Kasch.
July 29, 2017 at 4:12 pm #20871
@kasch Yes. That makes you a sanctimonious asshole. Don’t throw judgements whilst making no actions of your own. BOS, TeamJoyce, or just individuals, we made actions, while you sit there on the fence applauding and dismissing and making no actions of your own. Do something. Make a choice. Make a difference.
July 29, 2017 at 4:22 pm #20873
Do you guys think that the money we were given today and the lunch bags were made from the money we paid for our seminar in a couple of weeks? They mentioned that we all paid different amounts and then gave us all different amounts. I personally felt like there may be a correlation.
July 29, 2017 at 4:30 pm #20875
There are a lot of opinions flying around here and I’m shy about posting mine. So I’ll very briefly say, finding myself in Skid Row, I really wasn’t thinking too much about “parties” (BOS vs System, etc). I thought it was nice that we got to feed people and that the System wanted us to give to others, for whatever the reason. People on Skid Row are so destitute that they don’t care about the reasons behind why they get to eat. That’s something we, as privileged people, get the ability to care about and argue back and forth about on these forums. Food, water, shelter, those are the lowest and most needed things on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Way up closer to the top comes things like Philosophy. People who are truly hungry don’t care about where food is coming from or why it is coming, they just need to eat. I personally find it shocking that some people chose not to actually give food that they themselves were given to people who were truly hungry and destitute and actually living on the hot and sun-baked street (to make a point?) 🙁 I actually think it was great that the workshop was in Skid Row. I think it challenged us and confronted us, ethically. Homeless people are largely ignored by society and the System asked us to help them today. Being very new to this, I was impressed. I was happy that we were doing something to give to people who actually are very much struggling on a day to day basis. That being said, my own personal instincts were that I didn’t personally care to periscope my experiences or “hashtag” anything, because it did in my gut feel exploitative, not that I’m pointing fingers at anyone who did, just my own gut feeling. But regardless of where you stand or how you feel or what you think the “point” of all this is, we actually fed people today, and I’m really glad that that is what we were asked to do.
July 29, 2017 at 4:32 pm #20876
July 29, 2017 at 4:35 pm #20877
I’m incredibly happy with what the BOS crew did today. We made a specific choice to benefit ourselves and also make strangers smile. I felt good about pulling out cash to make a difference in the mood of the people in that bar. We made them smile. Who knows what kind of day they were having, but we brought just a little bit of sunshine. We aren’t judging the others who made different choices. We aren’t telling you that you were wrong or selfish. There’s something shitty happening where we are being made out to be villains for deciding that making a difference can be small. It can be a moment. Sure, buying a drink was one element of that choice, but the other element was an act of kindness, of generosity, where the only goal was a smile. I’m sure that was an element of your choices as well. Or maybe it was an after thought and accidental by product. But either way, I literally don’t know why we are bickering about this. No one is here to best one another. This was not a competition. High five to almost all of you today who created a moment. Let’s go make cool theories and solve some puzzles and play with a little bit of chaos.
July 29, 2017 at 4:39 pm #20880
Don’t throw judgements whilst making no actions of your own. BOS, TeamJoyce, or just individuals, we made actions, while you sit there on the fence applauding and dismissing and making no actions of your own. Do something. Make a choice. Make a difference.
So buying and passing out water bottles for the poor was inaction? Got it.
You guys were in a bar before the event, at a bar DURING the event, and went to a bar after the event. How is that making a difference for anyone other than the livers of a few bar rats? This was your chance to step outside your comfort zone and do something different.
I say this because this demonstrates exactly why I’ve been hesitant to join BOS this while time.
July 29, 2017 at 4:39 pm #20881ChrisParticipant
Absolutely, @cass, well said. I was very happy with how they structured this. First we were given money and told to affect change how we deemed fit, and in my eyes as long as you didn’t rip it up, pocket it, or spend it solely on yourself, then you did good. I agree with @meghanmayhem that kindness can come in many forms, and we have no way of knowing what additional good will come from those gestures. Then we get the second phase, which left no room for interpretation. We knew who those bags were for. Disregarding the impetus for the giving or how the acts were disseminated on social media, people who needed some kindness got it. That’s everything.
July 29, 2017 at 4:53 pm #20882
Can anybody elaborate on what Morgan said? He had two more stops??
July 29, 2017 at 4:53 pm #20883
i TOLD you guys we shouldn’t be friends! Shame on us for making some people’s afternoons in a different way than others, and hanging out outside of the event!
July 29, 2017 at 4:55 pm #20884
Ugh. Ok. I’m going to pretend like you didn’t just refer to us as bar rats and instead make a proposition to this thread. We were encouraged to make a difference. We will never say that the choices anyone (almost anyone) made today were wrong. We are not attacking anyone and will not attack anyone. In game or out. I’m willing to bet that today cost A LOT of money to put on to encourage us to go be better. To put a focus on other people. And here we are bitching on Slack and insulting each other on the forum. Let’s contribute back to something important. Here’s a link to donate to Planned Parenthood. Let’s do this in the name of The Lust Experience. Let’s thank the @the-creators by doing something wonderful in response.
July 29, 2017 at 4:58 pm #20885
I tore my money up. Seems to be a source of controversy but I stand by it.
It was nice meeting you Sage, Addison, and everyone else I met.
July 29, 2017 at 5:00 pm #20886
This is not a competition. If they want to make it a competition, THEY are the enemy. Whether you chose to buy someone a meal, some water, a meal, a lap dance, a scratcher ticket, a beer, or anything else. We are not competing with one another. We ALL made a difference in a strangers lives today. Fuck the reasons and fuck you who want to put tier levels on worth. Go follow @chelsea‘s link. Continue to make a difference in a strangers life with no competition.
July 29, 2017 at 5:06 pm #20888
July 29, 2017 at 5:07 pm #20889SeanModerator
It is curious that the directive was to “make an impact” but it is we, the participants, who decided that only things that we view as being impactful are valid. Whether water or beer was dispensed, a kind thing was a kind thing. You can make an impact on the life of a person sitting at a bar just as much as you can a person sitting on the street.
Measuring your altruism against another’s gets no one anywhere. Both were kind things. Anything done for another succeeded in the task assigned
July 29, 2017 at 5:08 pm #20890
July 29, 2017 at 5:11 pm #20891
July 29, 2017 at 5:13 pm #20892
Measuring your altruism against another’s gets no one anywhere. Both were kind things. Anything done for another succeeded in the task assigned.
July 29, 2017 at 5:16 pm #20893
July 29, 2017 at 5:17 pm #20894
@brianamatopoeia yup! Completely agree.
I also wanna agree with others that while I have my own personal opinions, I don’t think this is a morality pissing contest and aside from tearing up cash or throwing a food you could have given someone away, I’m not going to condemn anyone’s actions outright and can see the reasoning behind a variety of actions.
I think it’s great that this sort of discussion has been opened up in general! How and the best way to help others is a challenging discussion that is sure to always bring up some heated opinions. I think people in general are uncomfortable in the face of other people’s suffering and that it makes us defensive. Seeing other people helpless makes us feel helpless.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Cassandra.
July 29, 2017 at 5:17 pm #20895BlondieParticipant
This reminds me of that episode of Friends where Phoebe attempts a truly altruistic act only to discover there is no such thing…
I have nothing else to add to this than to say that describing Meghan’s act of friendship as a bribe to the leader of the resistance is really fucking out of order. Meghan sent that money to a friend and that is that.
July 29, 2017 at 5:22 pm #20897Anonymous
I think today was a fascinating and great day of self revelation.
Most people took “Be impactful” as “be charitable.”
Someone could have went and bought someones mix tape on the corner, or bought a book they’ve never read that might challenge their world view. But most thought to give.
Everyones definition of “impactful” will be different, but only the individual can truly decide if their actions today were what they deem to be impactful.
Today brough a lot of good out of people, and some bad. And that’s okay. This whole thing is supposed to be about self reflection and today, hopefully, does just that in spades.
I think we as people, and a community, do have a tendency to get lost in the weeds while missing out on the beautiful field and horizon behind them.
Trust yourselves to know you did well. And be cool and righteous to each other.
July 29, 2017 at 5:28 pm #20898
July 29, 2017 at 5:47 pm #20902
I think we can all agree that this shouldn’t be a competition. That’s learning the worst lesson of all from this.
Apologees to BOS.
July 29, 2017 at 5:57 pm #20904Anonymous
This all sounds like the Citizens Commission on Human Rights offering a Way to Happiness. Go out, make a difference, be impactful… while the cream of the crop flourish. Go ahead and sign your billion year contracts.
July 29, 2017 at 7:29 pm #20905VioletParticipant
@cass & @thebuz summed up my feelings pretty well, as an outsider to this whole thing that went down today and seeing the ensuing…um, shall we say, debates on who did the right thing & what the point of all this was.
if nothing else, it was certainly a fascinating social experiment.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Violet.
July 29, 2017 at 8:03 pm #20907Hannah SchenckParticipant
I genuinely agree with the points @cass and @thebuz made here… This was a way for you to make an impact in anyone’s life and The System wanted to see how we would utilize the tools we were given. There is no wrong way of applying this, as long as there was intent to participate. Do something for someone else to “make an impact”to learn that value is based on perception. Everything we chose to do today was logged and I guarantee it will be applied and play a part in our individual stories. Regardless of what you chose to do, it will have an effect on what happens moving forward.
I hope @maddyxxx enjoyed that hot tub today while watching us spread The System. We made a difference on many different levels today utilizing these tools creatively. Hang onto those methods and remember that they were meant to be emphasized for a reason.
July 29, 2017 at 8:17 pm #20908
If this workshop was all rainbows and unicorns and lunchables, I wonder what the 13th will bring?!
July 29, 2017 at 8:29 pm #20909
July 29, 2017 at 8:41 pm #20910
I don’t even want to read through all these posts because I loved the event today and what it led me and some others to do. I hate the drama that came from it and like I said on slack I’m just going to step away from the whole debate.
I just logged in to say thank you IG to the system and the leader of the resistance @111error but mostly OOG for the beautiful thing that was done today. It reminded me what is important and what isn’t. I’m not great at writing out what I feel but I don’t think this was exploiting, I think this was taking the time out of our day to help people and that was fucking BEAUTIFUL!
People on Skid Row are so destitute that they don’t care about the reasons behind why they get to eat. That’s something we, as privileged people, get the ability to care about and argue back and forth about on these forums.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Candace.
July 29, 2017 at 9:45 pm #20912Tim RedmanParticipant
I was given $10 and I walked 4 blocks away and found a flower mart where I found two dozen floral leis.
I didn’t have time to pass them out before I found everybody filing back into the building. I’m pretty sure I looked like an idiot at the time, and nobody asked me why i bought them, but once the lunches were revealed, we decided the hand out the leis with the food and and at least a couple of times they brought smiles to a few faces. The old “do you want to get lei’d” joke never gets old apparently. I’m guessing laughter is scarce commodity on skid row as are primary colors. I didn’t solve the world’s problems or impress Noah, but I found a way to stick to my values even when I wasn’t sure where the event stood on things.
July 29, 2017 at 10:04 pm #20913
July 29, 2017 at 10:04 pm #20914
July 29, 2017 at 11:14 pm #20915JackieParticipant
Inherently, acts of charity are just that, thankless giving. Donating to Planned Parenthood can be seen as egregious to those who Tithe, but it’s all the same, unilateral exchange. Maybe you’ll get prayers answered, maybe you’ll get medical services, but there is no expectation. Otherwise, it’s just a purchase.
Not doing anything or being destructive, is the worst. Doing something selfish, then manifesting it into something charitable, is fine. It’s like getting a ‘free’ tee-shirt while doing 5ks for causes, you get a little, they get a little. Doing zero selfish act but broadcasting charity, is modern. Bad acts get broadcasted all day, so why not the good, too?
Either way, experiences were made. No matter what, stand by your execution of ‘value’ because How you value yourself, is how you will be valued.
If you were given exactly what you gave; beer, food, money, leis, nothing…would you be grateful?
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Jackie.
July 30, 2017 at 12:28 am #20919KINGKILL33Participant
As I sit here and read your comments @maddyxxx, it really makes me laugh. I own up to what I did today and I won’t apologize for it. You go against everything you’ve preached up to this moment and are so flip flopped, you probably wipe your mouth instead of wiping your ass with the shit you say. Dead to the System?? Ahh boo hoo… I’m so sad. Please don’t kick me out Noah and not teach me how to be a douchbag like you… yea get the fuck outta here. One thing we do have in common though Noah, is that we don’t really care about what people think of us. Good, bad, disgusting, whatever… at the end of the day, we are who we are.
Frankly, I don’t give a shit about your “System” or you, Noah. So I guess that’s another thing we agree on, we both don’t like each other. I’m happy to hear that my message was passed onto you. In trade for today, you can go ahead and keep my seminar money, and know that I don’t need your bullshit System. You gave me $5 and a sack lunch to do what I wanted with today, and I did. Consider my $30 repayment for you sore ass and your butt hurt feelings. At the end of it all, everyone will be exposed to the truth that you’re a fraud and one lousy piece of shit.
July 30, 2017 at 12:31 am #20920
July 30, 2017 at 12:36 am #20921
In game, I think The System’s reasons for us impacting others were very selfish, but OOG, I absolutely love what we did today. I don’t feel like that hashtag was so we could advertise good deeds, I felt like they were just so the System could track us to make sure we did what we said we did.
I also wanted to add that impacting someone else isn’t always a positive thing-however, we interpreted it that way. That gives me so much pride in this community.
But it definitely left me thinking about how and who I have impacted recently (or ever). While I don’t have a lot of money, I’ve found other ways to have a positive impact on other people’s lives. Also got me thinking about the impact others have had on my life. On top of that, it helped me realize that sometimes when we make that impact, we don’t even know we are doing it-sometimes the impact is a positive one and other times, it is not.
Amazing lessons I took away today. Thanks, Noah, Morgan, and co.
July 30, 2017 at 1:50 am #20923
By the way, the music we danced to when we entered? It seems way too coincidental that it was the same very obscure piece of music — USED IN MY SHORT DOCUMENTARY about the fragrance industry. Unless Pearl Django, the jazz band out of Seattle, is not so obscure. Which I think they are. Which means…okay, Noah…Always watching and apparently listening.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Lawrence Meyers.
July 30, 2017 at 8:01 am #20926
I have some questions for the people who feel good about yesterday: Do you really feel like giving away $1 or $5 or $10 to a homeless person made any real impact on their lives? Do you often hand out money to homeless people (your own money)? If not, why not? If so, do you feel like you’re making an impact each and every time, and do you feel great about it every time? How was yesterday’s experience different from any other time you’ve given out money or food to the homeless (other than that you weren’t using your own money this time)? What do you think you learned from yesterday’s experience, if anything? Why do you need the System in order to do what you did yesterday? Would you have felt and/or acted differently if you were asked to use your own money?
July 30, 2017 at 8:28 am #20928KevinParticipant
Yes, I think handing out food and water to people who are hungry and thirsty made some impact (even if it was small and temporary), especially more than tearing up the money would have. I don’t think anyone chose to just straight up hand out the cash they were given to the homeless in the area. People went and purchased food and water, while maximizing the value of what they were given, and then handing that out. I’m actually writing up a longer post (which I’ll have to finish up later today) and trying to look at value and perception as it related to the event. Is it a new lesson? Not really, but this did force me to examine it in a different light.
Of course, no one needed The System to do what they did, but it still enabled them to do it on this day when we thought we would all be doing something different. I don’t want to speak for everyone, but I’m sure most people wouldn’t have cared if they had to use their money to help the people on Skid Row.
So what did you learn by tearing up the cash?
July 30, 2017 at 11:50 am #20948
I learned that people take offense to tearing up cash.
July 30, 2017 at 8:32 am #20929ShaunParticipant
@remrelganaps I don’t think any of us need The System to do what we did yesterday and I don’t think the act of giving money necessarily made a real impact.
I think the event itself sparked a lot of discussion and debate and in that sense it was a huge success. I’m sure it got a lot of people to think about things they usually don’t think about. Expanding our minds with stimuli.. or something.
It’s implied that Noah would teach through lessons and many times we wouldn’t know the rhyme or reason or if there even is a lesson. This event was just one of those.
If The System were to work it will be through a combination of various lessons and experiences. What The System is actually trying to teach us is still not clear. But if we don’t submit ourselves wholly and choose to eject we may not learn anything at all.
July 31, 2017 at 7:28 am #20972KevinParticipant
I think the big lesson on Saturday was how you chose to make an impact with whatever you were given. Were you able to make a difference in someone’s life and recognize why your actions made a difference. @maddyxxx also pointed out that “value is a perception”.
This was on clear display throughout the day as well, starting with the exercise to give an item to the person you had paired up with. I saw someone mention somewhere they handed over a necklace that they loved. They perceived the item as valuable, but for personal reasons, and it probably wouldn’t have the same value to the person who received it. Would knowing the necklace’s owner held it so highly affect the perceptions of who it was given to? Andy asked later in the day if people had still not traded something and two people next to me indicated they hadn’t. Andy asked them what they could part with and then what size shoes they wore. They wore different size shoes, so in that scenario neither would have really considered an exchange valuable. On the other end, Andy asked Sage if she had given anything yet so she dug around in her purse and gave Taylor a hair tie, which he immediately placed on his wrist. She probably didn’t perceive much value in a single hair tie, but it looks like Taylor found some, maybe as a memento for the day, maybe he just likes hair ties.
With the cash handed out, this came into play again. I was given a five dollar bill, which on it’s own didn’t hold much value to me, but to people with nothing that’s a large sum of money. Obvious, yes, but something I don’t think about on a regular basis, and now because of the day’s events choosing to examine it further. That same five dollars meant something different to the convenience store clerk (and we agreed on the value) and meant something different to those without money or homes. Which also points to the sliding scale of what you perceive as valuable.
I started writing this post earlier today and feel like I’ve sort of lost the thread at this point, but to tie it back into something here. Noah also said to “utilize your strengths and tools as effectively as possible.” In that sense, we all have perceptions of our own strengths, tools, and value. Are our perceptions of our own value the same as what BOS, The System, or OSDM may see in us? Do we have skills that they want, data they crave, can our energy wind the clock? Knowing what you perceive as valuable may be vital going forward.
July 31, 2017 at 9:00 am #20973
@kevin I wanted to add to the idea of human beings and their intrinsic value. Who is useful to you? How can you use and market their skill set to your benefit?
What does Noah see as our value? Based on his “interview”, it seems as if The System itself, though the self-actualization we will achieve, will make us more valuable to the man. If we follow The System, we achieve our own true value and use it to manipulate and benefit from the value of others. My value currently resides in my willingness to listen and follow the course laid out for us by the System and OSDM. That’s where I’m at. Other’s value may be perceived to lie in a similar unwillingness to conform.
So again: if we follow his technique, what do we provide for Noah? A couple hours entertainment? A bucket of money?
July 31, 2017 at 5:00 pm #20998Kyle BownParticipant
It took me a bit to read through this and process the events of Saturday. It was a very strange day, and I think a lot of people here have a lot of very insightful and interesting takes on the day.
The perception of value was a big one. Andy’s speech “There was a time when a dollar meant everything to me.” really hammered that home. To be honest, I haven’t really taken the time to consider the value of a single dollar to anyone not me. That was a very interesting and eye opening experience for me.
I also sympathize with those who feel like this generosity and “make an impact” attitude of the event aren’t what The System stands for. But I think it works on two levels.
1. Good PR. Help someone, give The System a good name.
2. Opening our eyes to the idea that we can change things. the System is about taking charge, taking what’s yours, and reshaping the world to be what you want. For your average person, that seems an impossible task. But what The System showed us this past weekend is that you can change someone’s day with a simple act and a simple dollar. It doesn’t actually take much top begin to change things. The darker version of this is that it doesn’t take much to manipulate people, or to improve your situation. As easy as it is to improve someone’s day by giving them a sack lunch or some bottled water (or buying them a beer or lap dance) you can do the same for more selfish reasons. You can’t buy into the System until you buy into your ability to make an impact. To change something outside of yourself.
July 31, 2017 at 8:30 pm #21015
Got access to a proper scanner! Belatedly, here is the letter from Saturday’s event. And yes, the water smear was there when I opened it. I choose to believe it was either a dramatic tear or a splash from the hot tub.
July 31, 2017 at 9:17 pm #21016
@daela Thanks for posting this, because I was too busy listening intently to actually listen to what you read.
Noah doesn’t care. Nor should he. We aren’t here to please him or anyone else. What matters is ourselves.
“Try to not let yourself down” is the operative phrase here.
The mysterious @remrelganaps [who registered months ago and only made his first comment after the event] raises the most important and challenging queries.
“I have some questions for the people who feel good about yesterday: Do you really feel like giving away $1 or $5 or $10 to a homeless person made any real impact on their lives?”
It’s like a pebble in a lake. It creates a brief set of ripples. Perhaps another day of survival, of hope. It doesn’t make any real manifest impact, though, for it is not a long-term solution.
“Do you often hand out money to homeless people (your own money)? If not, why not? If so, do you feel like you’re making an impact each and every time, and do you feel great about it every time?”
Rarely. I used to, but when I realized that it really didn’t make a meaningful impact, I stopped for the most part. Only in cases of extreme destitution am I usually moved to do so in the moment. I don’t feel great about it at all. I find myself feeling compassion and sadness for the individual. When I see the face of someone truly in need, whom I have given to, I feel more humbled than anything else. I hope I helped that person’s suffering, even a little bit.
“How was yesterday’s experience different from any other time you’ve given out money or food to the homeless (other than that you weren’t using your own money this time)?”
Having been given a mission to hand out food (which became a gift of money as well), I was placed in a state of heightened awareness. Having decided to hand the food to someone in a really bad way, I drove around Skid Row for quite awhile. Every time I thought I saw a candidate, another person 25 feet away seemed worse off. It made the lunch I had suddenly seem so terribly valuable, and I felt an even greater sense of responsibility to provide it to someone who would truly need it.
“What do you think you learned from yesterday’s experience, if anything?”
Judaism teaches the concept of “Tikkun Olam”, which means to engage in acts of repair in order to literally heal the world. But there is another piece to this. One is to engage in contemplative restorative acts — that is, to think about and reflect on the activity you are engaging in. Essentially, to pray. In doing so, we are healing ourselves at the same time.
“Why do you need the System in order to do what you did yesterday? Would you have felt and/or acted differently if you were asked to use your own money?”
I don’t need The System to do it. The ability always exists to do so. What The System did was essentially to issue a call to actively engage in such healing — on the Sabbath, I might add. A reminder to step outside myself for a day to help others, as the call is not always heard when I’m in my own “innocuous bullshit”. As for the money, as mentioned, I ended up handing out $40 of my own money to two individuals. Strangely, I never even felt that my money was even mine. Perhaps because I could afford to give that $40 away. Perhaps I would feel differently if I needed that $40.
July 31, 2017 at 10:02 pm #21017
July 31, 2017 at 10:38 pm #21018
July 31, 2017 at 11:01 pm #21019Tim RedmanParticipant
My grandmother already referred to her stories. Maybe Noah didn’t even pen that letter. Maybe somebody much older.
August 1, 2017 at 12:27 am #21020superstarParticipant
I spent a while today writing out my feelings about Saturday’s events, mainly in an effort to sort it all out in my own heart and mind. It helped, but I will not be posting what I wrote. Saturday touched a very sensitive nerve for me, one rooted directly to my childhood, and I feel disappointed in myself for many reasons. I need to step away for a bit and reconsider how I approach this experience.
To those of you who expressed understanding and care when I saw you later that day: thank you. You made an impact. 🙂
August 1, 2017 at 10:14 pm #21106
@superstar I hope you don’t feel too disappointed in yourself! You were voicing an opinion that felt authentic to you! I don’t necessarily believe in an inflexible Truth, but I think the way we come as close to it as we can get is by hearing people’s interpretations of things…one opinion might be an overshot one way, another might be an overshot a different way…if there’s any such thing as Truth, it’s that it’s much more complicated than we like to think it is, and more likely than not to be a composite of many things at once. I think different things that seemingly conflict can both be true. Everyone was just expressing themselves which I think is important and good. It’s good to speak honestly and it’s good to listen to and genuinely try to understand other people’s sides/interpretations, which I think for the most part, we all tried to do. That’s what communication is. And that’s how we get closer to solving problems and inching closer to the “Truth”, by speaking authentically so that we can gift people with the insight we have to offer, and by listening carefully so that we can receive the gifts of their insight as well. It’s hard to inch towards wisdom when you’re just listening to your own thoughts. Good to share thoughts! I think arguing back and forth is a good thing, so long as there is the underlying understanding of mutual respect.
August 1, 2017 at 2:18 am #21022
I am an idiot.
It took me until now to recall that when Noah called me, he asked, “What is something that you value?”
I said, “Constantly moving forward”, and he said, “Through your bowels, yeah, yeah…”
Then he tasked me to sell three strangers on The System.
First, he foreshadowed Saturday’s event. Yet at the same time, he dismissed my answer. It almost sounded like he would’ve dismissed anything I said because, as he wrote, he doesn’t care. It doesn’t matter to him. It should only matter to me.
But he tasked me to sell something I know nothing about. The only way to do that was simply to buy in on faith.
Today’s quote: “You can’t buy into the System until you buy into your ability to make an impact.”
Whether or not I sold anyone on anything was not the point of the task. What mattered was whether or not I made an impact on those individuals with my pitch, just as I think @chelsea made an impact on that couple, in creating a moment of human compassion.
August 1, 2017 at 7:30 am #21024
It’s interesting that you speak of creating a moment, @larry… because that’s what made this feel different. I’ve given my share of dollars to people on the street and to various charities, but there’s always been a sense of disconnection. Handing out food and water to people on skid row, I wasn’t in a rush. This wasn’t just something I was stopping to do for brief seconds while getting from Point A to Point B. This felt more personal and engaging than just dropping change into someone’s hat and I could see the gratitude on their faces. You can trivialize the matter by saying a bottle of water or a Snackables pack or $1 made no impact, but it wasn’tjust about our meager gifts… it was about looking someone in the eye and creating a moment that shows you see and acknowledge them as a person. That’s the greatest feeling in the world when you’ve hit rock bottom. That’s making an impact.
August 1, 2017 at 9:50 am #21029
August 1, 2017 at 10:06 am #21032Anonymous
@pandace88 I think that’s the idea. Get rid of your preconceived notions of what we think we know about something.
It is afterall about the bigger picture.
August 1, 2017 at 10:13 am #21033
@thebuz but we have those preconceived notions because they TOLD us to have them. The website, the commercials for the system etc. We didn’t make that up ourselves. I don’t understand the message we’re supposed to learn. The system and good deeds to me are on opposite ends of the spectrum so none of this is making sense to me..but I’ll wait and see how it unfolds since we’re apparently only half way
August 1, 2017 at 10:22 am #21034Kyle BownParticipant
I think the lessons are two fold.
1. Good PR is good PR. The System Saves. Looks good on paper. But like fart too many charitable acts by those in the public spotlight, The System can publicly do one thing and privately stand for something different. Think of the politician that goes to a children’s hospital before cutting it’s funding.
2. It’s the first step to their broader point. First, they suck you in by doing nice things. “Oh, the System isn’t so bad. See, they helped me help this person and taught me that I could change someone’s day through good works.” But what they’re doing is priming you for the later steps. Now that you know you can make a difference with as little as a dollar, you’ll know you can make a difference in the rest of your life. Another word for change is manipulate. It just sounds nicer when you use change instead. “I changed a homeless person’s day by passing out water and sack lunches.” How bad does it sound when you say “I manipulated some homeless people by passing out water and sack lunches.” It sounds terrible, but it’s more or less the same thing. Now you know you can manipulate someone with very little effort. what can you do if you put your mind to it? If you REALLY get behind making something happen? Now, instead of helping people, help yourself. Get what you want. Manipulate your friends, your co-workers, your boss, the world to get what you want.
Ultimately, I think, it’s not about helping the homeless. It’s about helping you understand that you can change things, right now.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Kyle Bown.
August 1, 2017 at 10:29 am #21036
August 1, 2017 at 10:32 am #21038SeanModerator
The system and good deeds to me are on opposite ends of the spectrum so none of this is making sense to me
Maybe this is all a ruse, The System and Noah coming from different minds or being controlled by different things.
Or maybe simplifying things into “Super goodie boyscout” and “Meanie pants” is reductionist and a mistake. Maybe The System is about challenging preconceived notions that all power must go to selfish reasons, that hyper-capitalism and faux-alpha male style interactions are the only ways to move forward in the world.
The System, at its core, has preached that it will teach you how to take an idea, an iota of will, and manifest it into something real. In the early days, that was shrouded in the “Get money, get bitches” style advertisements that we all know, but you can impose your will onto the world in so many other ways as well. On Saturday, people were given a couple bucks and they changed the world, even if only by a small bit. The System is already showing people that they have the power to do things beyond the norm.
Does it matter if the person teaching you to be a better person is an asshole if the end result is you being a better person?
August 1, 2017 at 10:50 am #21039
@bruinbown this is spot on. Andy literally said as much after our first trip out. He was showing us that even what may seem like a good deed (and it was) is a small manipulation. You are cultivating loyalty. To put it bluntly: That person we gave to? Maybe they now think better of us because we did so. Apply that to business, to relationships, to getting what YOU want. If you carry yourself as capable of making an impact on everyone around you, others will defer to you. If you give someone something they need, or something they didn’t yet know they needed, you are showing them a subtle dominance through your “good” deed. You are the provider. And that person is now useful to you. Do this enough, when you take what you want, it will just look like you’re doing another favor.
August 1, 2017 at 11:03 am #21040CodyParticipant
I would like to put forward a thought that it us because the hearts of men and women are weak. While some like the systems message it is loathed by others, regardless of opinions both sides dance to the tune played by the system itself.
I think the like and dislike are reflections of the state’s of consciousness of the individuals.
Even the most watered down versions of spiritual enlightenment education first call to our lower selves/Ego’s.
Promises of immortality and even God like results are quite tempting.. and they do make us LISTEN. Do they not?
These methods were utilized throughout Tension as well.
I see these parealels everywhere thought ancient texts, mystery schools, Gnostic teachings and right through to modern teachings.
You must embrace your shadow to fully understand it. As progression takes place we realize these thoughts no longer serve us.
I’ll leave this little clip of text here for anyone who cares to read.
from the 2012 event gives us two periods of seven years of grace to repent and flee from the wrath to come. By 2026-27 we will be in the final end game known as the tribulation.
This is exactly what it will be to humanity – a revelation of a hard truth.
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll : and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
This “knowledge of good and evil” is in essence what is called auto-soterism or ‘self salvation’. This is why the vain woman was approached first by the nachash who ‘hissed’ or charmed her through the weakness of her vanity and whispered a magic spell that enchanted her by it’s prophetic yet false promise of godhood, knowing that the only way he, the serpent, could reach the man, who was the god ordained authority, was through that fleshly part of him, which was the part of him that was weaker and more beautiful, and therefore vain and more easily approached.
The kernel of auto-soterism is the ‘Gnosis’ or knowledge of good and evil, to save yourself through your own effort, and “become like god” as the nachash had lied when he spoke it. This idea of self salvation or becoming like god or gods as it is told, is vanity, for if that was possible then the prime creator of Yah Elohim had no need to send the savior Yahushua Ha Massiach.
We know from Yahushua’s statements and those supporting statements by his talmidm that man was made a little lower than the angels, and would one day be lifted up higher in spiritual consciousness than the angels, to the level of Yah Elohim, becoming a new creation, and that the angels would one day serve that new creation.
This was known by the seraphic serpents (fallen angels) who tempted Adom and Chavah (Adam and Eve) and was the prime reason for their rebellion, the subsequent temptation and eventual fall into a lower state of consciousness. This self salvation doctrine in it’s many forms and mutations throughout the ages is the heart of the Illuminated Doctrine of Lucifer, and satisfies the vanity of mens’ hearts to be like god through their own efforts.
The deviousness of this is evident to the truly enlightened mind, one enlightened by the set apart spirit of Yah Elohim, and not the spirit of this world, for it is evident to that truly enlightened mind that the path of self salvation ends only in eternal death, the very diabolical purpose of it!
That which prevents the mind of the other path, the “wide path that leads to destruction” is the pride of men’s hearts, the very same pride that caused the fall of the rebellious angels. This is the very reason why Yahushua said, “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.”
August 1, 2017 at 11:32 am #21041
Maybe The System is about challenging preconceived notions that all power must go to selfish reasons, that hyper-capitalism and faux-alpha male style interactions are the only ways to move forward in the world.
I actually love that idea. But I think it’s more likely that you’re trying to make sense/meaning/profundity out of something that is simply chaos for the sake of chaos.
Noah said, “You will pay me to pay attention, and I will abuse you. The System will abuse you. You will not know the rules of The System, because there are no rules. You will not know what the ethical boundaries are, because I am unethical. You will never quite know when it begins and when it ends. You will [not] know if I am teaching a lesson, or just fucking with you because I am bored. Most of the time, there will be no difference. You will misunderstand my point. You will become ‘enlightened’ by mere mistakes.”
I personally think that looking for a benevolent point beyond “turning us into marketers for The System” is, essentially, looking for a System lesson where there is none. Noah is fucking with us, just like he said he would.
August 1, 2017 at 2:48 pm #21043Bryan BishopParticipant
There’s a ton of great points in this thread and a lot of criss-crossing conversations. Had a couple of thoughts to drop in, so apologies if most (or all) of these have been discussed before.
1. Watching from afar (and now looking back), it seems pretty straightforward to me that the event was all about teaching people that they could affect the world around them. That the participants had agency. @larry, when you say it was about determining whether you made an impact, I’d actually push back and say it was actually about giving you the opportunity to learn that you could make an impact. Same as your exercise before. Challenge people to do something so they realize they have the potential to do it.
Now, I know you are already aware that you have that agency — but it seems like the exercise took many people out of their comfort zones and taught them that their actions had an impact on the outside world. It resonates with all the other lessons Noah has been teaching with getting people to interact with the outside world in strange and unexpected ways.
2. The idea that this was intended as a PR stunt for The System doesn’t quite ring true to me. The System is literally trying to sell tickets right now, and publicity about them profiteering off of the homeless would kill that dead. I find it more likely that the hashtag was simply an opportunity for The System to track those that found enlightenment or followed through. (And let’s be honest – we pretty much all follow each other anyway, so it’s not like hashtagging our Periscopes would achieve much word of mouth other than letting other LUST participants know that people were Periscoping Sinclair stuff.)
3. The System isn’t Noah, and vice-versa. The positive aspect of the task on Saturday is totally at odds with everything we’ve learned about Noah thus far — but I think that’s to be expected. People were told to drop all preconceived notions before showing up on Saturday for a reason. We actually don’t know how The System works, or what to really expect. All we know is the salesman that pitches it.
Noah is obnoxious, crass, totally doofy (and yes, sometimes hilarious). But we don’t know that he is The System any more than we knew that Addison Barrow was The OOA.
4. That said, if the goal is to teach people to take what’s theirs and become raging jerkfaces a la Noah, then a great first lesson towards achieving that goal is reminding folks that Yes, Your Actions Have Meaning And Therefore You Are Not A Victim To Life.
For me, that puts everything about Saturday in the most interesting context possible. People were taught they could do something good. And many did. Now they’ve learned that lesson, and the same instinct that was used to do a good thing can now be corrupted and utilized towards doing a bad or selfish thing.
The charity of Saturday could be absolutely in line with Noah’s larger teachings… it’s just the first step towards waking people up to the fact that they can impact the world around them. (And hey, if it means people had an emotional reaction and that provided some emotional data… well, I’m sure Horace would be just happy with that, too.)
August 1, 2017 at 3:34 pm #21045
@bcbishop right. we don’t know exactly how The System works. But what we do know is Noah intends to teach us to be more like him and less like us. He wants to train us to be influencers influence. Then we influence others, use them, take what we want, and so on. It’s ok to recognize this for what it is and decide how it can help you, because it definitely won’t be all good deeds forever. But if we follow the path? Maybe we come out with some bigger balls.
To put it in the most Noah way I can manage: be a sheep until someone shows you how to be a fucking wolf.
August 1, 2017 at 10:18 pm #21108
@wanda102 I like that you have respect for Noah and the System, without necessarily over idealizing it. I think that’s a good and refreshing balance and a unique perspective so far.
The “giving” as a power dynamic is really interesting and true. That’s why some people don’t like having stuff paid for for them (dinner, drinks, etc.) (not me, you can all buy me food and drink anytime).
I find that even when giving is truly selfless, it can create a power dynamic inadvertently. In the worst case, it’s malicious the entire time and meant to be manipulative (we see this as a trend in abusive relationships–financial dependency that often starts off in the form of elaborate gift giving). Either way, it’s powerful stuff.
That being said, I think in this specific case, it really was pretty selfless. It’s nice to think that the people behind the System spent all that time putting bagged lunches together and stapling the tops 🙂 Makes them seem a little less dark. And I like that after all this talk of going out and “punching the world in the balls” and “taking what’s ours”, they had us do something genuinely good.
But I don’t doubt the concept at all of giving in general oftentimes creating a power dynamic, whether purposefully or not.
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