This topic has 20 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by 
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I find it to be interesting that the image used for the conclusion of chapter 3 is El Lissitzky “New Man” (1921).
Symbolism for Noah being fed up/putting his foot down with Horace’s desire (dare I say Lust?) to control all with The System?
Thoughts?
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I agree that it points to Noah, but it also points to all of us as well. I can’t remember if the words “self-actualization” were used last night, but that’s where we’ve all been pushed to over the last week (and it appeared to be Noah’s goal for himself as well). We chose to confront different aspects of our own lives and then talked about what we would do to move past the things that we hated. On Noah’s end, he confronted his unfeeling nature and opted to “destroy the person who made him this way.” We may have seen the early stages of that last night.
In a sense we all started becoming new people right along with Noah.
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I agree with @kevin’s points. If Noah is already beginning to break away from his father and in the process achieve what he wants for himself…well, I wonder just how far Noah is willing to go and what he’s willing to do in order to do this.
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@kevin I believe Noah did say the phrase self actualization! The idea of all of us…evolving in a sense, together, would fit with there seeming to be less and less of a need for “factions” as our journey progresses. Perhaps we are dovetailing towards a common goal: self actualizstion…however that may benefit, or destroy, the OSDM.
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Diving into this even more, it appears that New Man was tied to Victory Over the Sun, “an avant-garde Cubo-Futurist ‘opera’ staged in Russia.” While the opera predates the image, Lissitzky put on his own version of the show and created New Man for it.
Victory Over the Sun is described by the New York Times from a review of a restaging in the 1980s as:
The theme of ”Victory Over the Sun” is in fact the necessity to go beyond the visible, everyday order of things to the higher world of the super-rational. This will not be the Italian Futurist world dominated by the machine, but rather, the new world of supermen, rejecting the past and its tradition of logic.
There are a couple of definitions of super-rationality (Kant’s doesn’t appear to fit), but the most fitting is: “beyond the scope or range of reason; intuitional.”
We know Horace values reason and logic (even though he has been prone to drop both of those), so this fits in with the battle Noah and Horace are having. The OSDM is all about facts and data so they can predict outcomes, but Noah has pushed people towards themselves and their own intuition.
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Well put, @kevin. I’ll admit I find myself in a curious position. I’ve always sided with OSDM (sp?), HCDI (sp?), and Horace (sure, sp?) not because I cared about Anoch or anybody’s business practices. I cared because they pushed my emotional buttons; that they provided The Experience, which helped lead me down the road of self-actualization and realization (bumpy and never-ending though that path may be).
Despite how unpopular it’s been at times, it has been an easy stance to adhere to, because its goals have been so clearly defined.
But now I find myself looking at the current landscape: HCDI appears to have disappeared, as has @joycecarlberg, and aside from a brief call to @wanda102 a while ago I don’t think any of the Joyce crew ever heard from Horace directly. It’s been complete radio silence. And sometimes silence is a message unto itself.
So I find myself reassessing. My goals have not changed, so who best pushes my buttons to help me self-actualize? After the past week, that’s most certainly Noah Sinclair and The System. I still think he can be an (admittedly charming) ass, but if I don’t care about OSDM’s business practices, I certainly don’t care about Noah’s douchery. I also give no shits about his war with his daddy, and whatever weird family business they’re working out.
So that makes my allegiances pretty easy to sort out at this point. I don’t have any. I simply support that which helps me better myself. That may have meant OSDM before; it may mean The System today. It will always mean my friends. But after yesterday, I don’t see much point in pursuing anything else, so I’m just going to pour one out for our girl @joycecarlberg, and see what happens next.
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Well said, @bcbishop. I’ll miss her too.
I once was told by a very smart friend that the people here ARE this experience, and it’s never rung more true than this week. Let’s turn the page. ? -
Symbolism for Noah being fed up/putting his foot down with Horace’s desire (dare I say Lust?) to control all with The System?
That made me quietly chortle.
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So that makes my allegiances pretty easy to sort out at this point. I don’t have any.
@kasch #TeamRonin welcomes its newest member….@bcbishop!Bryan, the annual dues are only $35,000. We take cash only.
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@larry Unfortunately I won’t be able to accept your offer, but I applaud your unionizing efforts.
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y’all gonna die
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y’all gonna die
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In a sense we all started becoming new people right along with Noah.
I’ve been thinking about this since you posted it. This made me think of early on in Lust when we had the shadow/mirror people and we all joked about them being the “evil” version of us…but….what if…that was all a precursor to the System and the people we “could” become? Like, we can become different selves, which could be looked at as a reflection. Or we change the way we act based on reflection.
Or we could all be the phoenix that rise out of the ashes (our old selves).
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A clip from the new movie, “Andrew and Larry’s European Vacation”
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@bcbishop
Ronin never die in vain.Non-committal gingers? Toast.
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This made me think of early on in Lust when we had the shadow/mirror people and we all joked about them being the “evil” version of us…but….what if…that was all a precursor to the System and the people we “could” become?
I hadn’t thought of that @mike, and goddamn it’s good to have you back.
I have had this bizarre experience the past three weeks and it all kicked off with that phone call from Noah. He called on my first night in Scotland. And in the weeks since I’ve been dealing with the heartbreak of this project while being in an unfamiliar place. And Noah pushing my buttons deliberately on the forums.
And fuck me if the combination of those two things hasn’t made me rethink how I ended up on this project in the first place, why I’ve let myself be walked all over in exchange for things that this director/creator wasn’t any more qualified to give me than I was to give myself, what I truly think of myself and my work, and maybe where to go next.
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@larry If we get to have amazing car chases like that, I will gladly be the Riggs to your Murtaugh.
The Starsky to your Hutch.
The Cash to your Tango.
#TeamRonin
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