8/2 Follow up call from Noah

“He said something like what if there were more people you could get power over.. everyone has a button.”

So…. is this Noah revealing at the dark side of The System? The good (Candace realizing she has power) with the bad (getting power over others by pressing their “button”).

Curious to see how the other calls played out.

Whoa.

So essentially Noah is going to do his own thing and make the System work the way its supposed to and at the same time build his own army of resistance.

Going theory that feels pretty damnn good.

I wonder if he’s building us up so we can continue his work/fight for him after he’s gone.

In Scientology, they have a thing called “finding your ruin”. When they’re trying to recruit someone, they try to find the thing, or things that the target (that’s you) don’t like about themselves. It doesn’t really matter what that thing is, everyone’s is different, but what’s important is that they find that thing about yourself that you don’t like, and then tell you “That’s ok, Scientology can help you with that.”

Those things that you don’t like about yourself are called “buttons”, and their process for “therapy” is to basically repeatedly mash those buttons until they’re worn out, and you don’t react to them anymore. This isn’t actually addressing your ruin, it’s just exhausting your emotional reserves until you’re an empty, unfeeling husk with no will to resist. Then they say “See? We fixed your ruin! Don’t you feel better now?” You think about it for a second, and think “Hey, I don’t feel that anymore, I’m all better.”

If you want to do good deeds, do them. If you want to help people, help them. Be who you want to be, but do it because it’s what you want, not because it’s what someone tells you that you need it.

When Noah talks about getting power over other people through the use of those buttons, he’s talking about you too, and him gaining power over you. Whatever incidental good comes from his shenanigans, his overall motivations, and intentions are probably nothing less than sinister.

“Going theory that feels pretty damnn good.”

Exactly why you shouldn’t trust it, @thebuz. 😉

Just my two cents, but this message from Noah reads much more like him simply highlighting to @pandace88 that she gained power by taking ownership of this situation. As I was positing yesterday, it’s about legitimate self-realization.

An army (and who knows what else) could conceivably come down the line, but imo this doesn’t seem like it’s about telegraphing future intent. It was about self-empowerment.

We have to wait and see what @daela has to say from her call.

But yes, we should be weary of anything that feels… too good to be true.

Remember the most important character: devastation.

I don’t think we’re getting a happy ending.

@kortneydarling nooooooooo

Sounds like he wants you to know that power feels good! And power is addictive and leaves you wanting more…

Got my call. Was working from home today so I could actually hear him this time, for the most part. Paraphrased (poorly) below:

Sean: Noah!”
Noah: (Mockingly, referring to my earlier answer) I’m afraid that people will know who I am and I’ll need to be motivating/funny/entertaining in order to get people to like me… Hell of a post there, and a hell of a set of responses. Did you expect anything like that? People opening up like that?
Sean: Not even a little bit.
Noah: When’s the last time you had a post of that length? That got that many responses, that many ‘loves’?
Sean: Literally never happened before.
Noah: Feels good, huh? When you open up like that and have people respond to you? You have power over them when you get them into that place. You understand?
Sean: Absolutely
Noah: This is what I want you to do. Next time you do that, get them into that vulnerable place… I want you to outright lie to them. When you get them like that you can leverage them. All it’ll take is the right set of words. You think you can do that?
Sean: Oh, I think I can do that.
Noah: Good man. Alright, now write this down
*5 seconds as I look for a fucking pen somewhere*
Noah: Hurry. The. Fuck. Up.
Sean: Alright go
Noah: Weakness can look like a strength in front of weak people.
[Call end]

I get it. Like @pandace88 said: “I can say or do the right thing to someone and I will take their power over me and make it my own”. I sure as fuck ain’t gonna disagree now.

Oh Noah. You living legend.

Weakness can look like a strength in front of weak people.

And there’s the theme, the motive, the moral of the damn story.

Indeed @thebuz. You can make anything look positive or negative if presented in the right light to the right audience.

Alright so @maddyxxx now seems to now be educating us on manipulations, showing us exactly how the OSDM can manipulate us to gain power. I just hope he’s doing so in order to help us fend off the OSDM’s tactics much like @111error was hoping to, and not in order to create a new sort of OSDM from us.

@thegilded I’m so glad he had you write that last bit down. We’re all guilty of this sometimes, especially on social media. Oversharing, complaining, or (the worst) humble bragging forces people to engage with you because to not respond/like/share would almost be cruel, depending on how close of a friend they are. Compassion is a powerful thing. Sharing what makes you ugly makes you beautiful.

I just hope he’s doing so in order to help us fend off the OSDM’s tactics much like @111error was hoping to, and not in order to create a new sort of OSDM from us.

I feel you @nothenrygale, but Noah basically just confirmed what some of us were saying yesterday. This is about empowering us by first doing nice things we feel comfortable with, and then asking us to use that newfound power to do bad things. All in the name of teaching us control over the outside world.

I think it’s going to be very important in the months ahead that we don’t judge Noah, Horace, The System, BOS, The OSDM, or anybody else on what we hope they’re doing. We need to try to evaluate them on what they’re actually doing. Otherwise we’ll get run over by a truck we are choosing not to see.

This is about empowering us by first doing nice things we feel comfortable with, and then asking us to use that newfound power to do bad things

Asking us to use that newfound power for our own gain. The judgement on whether something is good or bad is up to the individual perception and outside the scope of what The System is shaping up to be.

Besides, The System has always advertised teaching you how to be powerful, not how to concern yourself where on the arbitrary “good/evil” spectrum you lie

@bcbishop But…. isn’t that what he’s doing? Actually doing? He’s showing us how to put people in an emotional state where you can then lie to them and gain power over them. Yes it’s empowering us, but he’s ending these empowering statements with “next steps” that take things into dark territory. Power is not always used for good.

When you open up like that and have people respond to you? You have power over them when you get them into that place.

…sounds like iConfidant… is Noah connected to them after all? Fuckin hope not.

This is what I want you to do. Next time you do that, get them into that vulnerable place… I want you to outright lie to them. When you get them like that you can leverage them. All it’ll take is the right set of words.

This is incredibly scary. What has Noah lied about in the past? Horace “confirmed” (could be another lie) about Noah’s past/taking away his toys & puppy… But overall, that was the thing that people overall empathized with him for.
What if that was a lie? Is there anything else that could have been a lie from him to get leverage over us?

(Note: I’m x-ing out some of my answers, because they got pretty personal, and I want to consider my mom’s feelings in all this. She’s quite private, and it would be wrong to expose her and my dad to the world without their knowledge. The truly important part of the conversation was, in the end, Noah’s questions. Anything paraphrased is in parentheses.)

I received a No Caller ID call, but I was in the middle of a work call. I regretfully let it go to voicemail. Fortunately, as I was wrapping up work, No Caller ID called again.

When I answered, Noah was quoting what sounded like a poem. An older one, that used the word “doth”. Something about the sun? But just then my coworker needed me, and I told Noah I had to put him on hold for a sec.

When I’d wrapped up the work situation, I came back and said, “Sorry about that. I’m back. You caught me at work.”

Noah: Lauren, just so we have an understanding, please don’t ever do that to me again.
Me, chuckling: Understood.
Noah: So how did it go yesterday, the call with your mother?
Me: You know what, I called her, I spoke to her…xxxxxx
Noah: …Why did you think you two were so close and she deserved that call?
Me: Because she gave up – she screwed her life over for me, in many ways. xxxxxx
Noah: That’s actually very touching. My relationship with my mother has always been…complicated. It’s a good reminder that sometimes relationships…there’s a lot of context there. Do you think you’re more similar to your mother, or…dare I ask, is your father around?
Me: xxxxxx
Noah: I’m gonna ask a question here. Do you ever wish (that you had a better dad)?
Me: xxxxxxx
Noah: It’s one of the more – I guess, probably the greatest hurt (?) – is I find myself more like my father every day, in ways I didn’t even realize until it happened, you know?
Me: I’m sorry to hear that. Your dad doesn’t seem like a great guy.
Noah: Do you ever resent your mother for how much control she has over you and your happiness, and that you have to think about that she gave up everything for you, and that weight on you, make you feel guilty?
Me: xxxxxx
Noah: Hm. Does this affect your partner at all? Does he resent that?
Me: xxxxxx
Noah: Let me ask you this. Is there any sense of hate that ever comes up, when you think about it, and you have to deal with it, when you have (conflict with your parents)?
Me: I…no. I very rarely feel any kind of hate.
Noah: Well, let me tell you this, Lauren. Hate is a cleaner emotion. It’s precise, surgical. And love, no matter how supposedly pure, always has fallout. One day soon you find yourself on the brink, you’d be advised not to (? phone interference). This has been nice, though, Lauren. I’ll be in touch. Think I can promise that.

So, to recap:

Noah’s relationship with his mother is “complicated”.
Noah is becoming more like his father every day, in ways he doesn’t even realize. He doesn’t seem to like that about himself. (Although I’m guessing about the word “hurt” – it was staticky.)
Extrapolating – He resents his father for how much control he has over him.
Extrapolating – It affects his partner, Sarah, who also resents how much control Horace has over him.
Extrapolating – He hates his father. And he will continue hating his father. Because hate is simple, and love is complicated.

I really wish I could have heard the word when he said “One day soon you find yourself on the brink, you’d be advised not to”….whatever that final word was.

The tone of my call and the tone of Sean’s call sound…very different. Think he’s playing me?

“one day soon you’ll find yourself on the brink…”

of hatred?
of love?

He very well could be playing you but that’s us just going off of hunches.

If we take it at face value… he just had a genuine sincere connection with you. Human to human.

I think that’s something we all strive for when it comes to our personal demons.

He didn’t try to one up you, or over shadow your answers with his own. He asked more questions (all the while answering them himself).

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter how we feel about your call. How do you feel about it, @daela?

@daela I’m grasping at straws, but does this sound familiar?

“The higher the sun ariseth, the less shadow doth he cast; even so the greater is the goodness, the less doth it covet praise; yet cannot avoid its rewards in honours.” Lao Tzu

After reading about these calls I was wondering something. If Noah is legit going against the flow of the OSDM, would it be possible Noah is doing what the System was advertised for but not what it was meant for? As in the System was always a tool of the OSDM but was never actually supposed to give its participants actual power, but Noah is doing just that. For whatever resistance or army or what not. At this point anythings possible but I feel like Noah isn’t necessarily trying to “burn it all down”, he just wants his own powerful life with his company and his wife without Hoarace and the OSDM breathing down his neck. @111error and the BOS could help him with that situation, and he could help us in the similar situation. Why would Noah, who’s all about being your own boss and having control, want his own father calling the shots and threatening his “army” and his own wife.

I do think there’s an element of being played here, @daela. What if everything we think is a glimpse into Noah’s makeup, his “hatred” of his father, his “complicated” relationship with his mother, even what Horace told Meghan about burning his toys and puppy, is a calculated show of feigned weakness to give him (and Horace) power?

Just like he instructed @thegilded to do, Noah told us a few “truths” about himself. They seem like cracks in his armor, but they’re not. His perceived weaknesses, eliciting sympathy from us, exactly like he explained, only gives him power over us.

It’s a neat trick. I look forward to becoming more adept at it.

Noah: Lauren, just so we have an understanding, please don’t ever do that to me again.

Ahhhhh hahahaha this had me laugh out loud.

Seems like he felt pretty comfortable opening up to you in between the lines, as not to come outright and say it. Perhaps he used your relationship with you and your mother (and also maybe your father) to convey where he stands with his. He used his power over your situation to divulge into his own. He definitely gave us more info than we had before regarding his mother and solidifying our theories of his father.

Noah: Weakness can look like a strength in front of weak people.

@thegilded
What. A. Statement. He. Left. You. With. This is a sure tell way of manipulation, even if it is not always intended, but in this case I feel that it is. Appeal and relate to their weakness and show them how to manifest it into strength by sharing your journey. Now you have gained a follower and their confidence in your ability to be strong. They will match what you do and convince themselves it will create strength within them as well. This can be used positively and negatively. In this case, I am still believing that the intentions are good.

@wanda102 A similar thing happened with the event on Saturday as well. Yes, Noah got people to understand that they could have an impact and how perception and value are related. But in a way he also showed a type of weakness by setting everyone up to help those around them. It looked like Noah had a soft spot and a lot of people became more open to The System. He used what people perceived about him to gain a measure of control and strength over the situation.

In that sense, there was a double meaning to the value as a perception lesson. If people have a certain perception of your value(s) as a person, that perception can be used for your own ends.

“The higher the sun ariseth, the less shadow doth he cast; even so the greater is the goodness, the less doth it covet praise; yet cannot avoid its rewards in honours.” Lao Tzu

@kipsie – I literally heard only about three words between the phone ringing and my coworker talking to me, but that may well have been it!

@thebuz – To be 100% honest, I felt connected to him. It was a good call. But his sudden “vulnerability” left me uneasy. If he was indeed dropping the mask, why drop the mask with me, “one of his harshest critics”? Hearing about Sean’s call made me think it’s more likely that he was living out his own advice: “Weakness can look like a strength in front of weak people.”

What if everything we think is a glimpse into Noah’s makeup, his “hatred” of his father, his “complicated” relationship with his mother, even what Horace told Meghan about burning his toys and puppy, is a calculated show of feigned weakness to give him (and Horace) power?

@wanda102 – That’s what I’m wondering. They do say that the pity play/victim stance is the go-to manipulative tool for sociopaths.

I don’t know what to believe.

Remember: this is The Lust Experience. What do you lust after, and why? What will you do to get it?
I may be wrong about the Jesus parallel. Starting to seem more like…anti-Christ. Oh wait, that’s where we all started, right?

I’m going to shut up now and do as I’m told.

And maybe more relevant:

@daela

To be 100% honest, I felt connected to him. It was a good call.

Out of everything we’re talking about, this is the only thing that is 100% true.

Maybe there isn’t more to it than that? Maybe.

Isn’t that enough, @thebuz? Many of the interactions so far have been one-sided information dumps or cryptic threats allowing us to peek into the unknown. Noah has been a little rough around the edges, but incredibly straightforward from day one. Incredibly real. If he is manipulating us, I highly doubt he’s just luring us into his father’s trap. I think @rizzzoooooo is right on the mark.

Noah: Weakness can look like a strength in front of weak people.

I used to play a lot of poker. A huge component to the psychological side of the game is not really guessing exactly what your opponent has in their hand, but figuring out how your opponent feels about what they have in their hand. Are they strong, or weak? Confident, or nervous? If I know that they’re weak, then I can act strong, and bluff them off a hand. If they’re strong, I can get the hell out of the way, before I lose more money on a mediocre hand. Profit in poker is not about the money you win, it’s about the money you avoid losing.

One major tell that you learn early on is that “Strong = weak, and weak = strong.” When you’re trying to deceive someone, if you’re strong, you act weak, and if you’re weak, you act strong. The basis of your deception is that you’re acting the opposite to your true feelings about the situation. Of course, you might be saying…it wouldn’t be deceptive to act strong when you are strong, that’s the opposite of deception.

It makes sense. “If they were really so strong here, why wouldn’t they be trying to squeeze more chips out of me? Why act strong and chase everyone away from the hand, when what a strong hand would really want is more money in the pot?” When you act weak, it’s because you want to draw your opponents in, and not scare them off. It doesn’t feel deceptive to act strong when you are strong, and act weak when you are weak, that feels like honesty. When you’re doing it intentionally, to manipulate the actions of your opponent, it’s actually not based in honesty, it’s another layer of deception that superficially appears to be honesty.

What if someone knows you know this “rule” though, and acts strong when they’re strong, thinking that you’ll interpret it as weak. Now your opponent is one level above you in this weird flipping/leveling race. As long as your opponent is exactly one level ahead of your own thought process, you’re fucked, and they’re gonna eat your lunch. Every decision you make will be the wrong one, not because your opponent knows what you’re holding, but because they know how you feel about it, and can exploit those feelings to manipulate your actions in a manner that’s most beneficial to them, and least beneficial to you.

Are your feelings being manipulated, or exploited for someone else’s benefit? Are you playing this game on the same level as your opponent, or are you one level behind?