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So I have a theory.
What exactly is the Lust Experiences intention? What is the OSDM trying to prove or discover (since they are here to gather information on us)?
I believe, after the events of the past few days that they are testing us in a way that makes one choose themselves over others.
Me or them?
Power or Good for all?
Hallows or Horcruxes?
I know I know, how can I tie this into Harry Potter? Bare with me. In Deathly Hallows, Harry must choose at one point to either continue searching for the Horcruxes that will destroy Voldemort and save the world, or seek out the Deathly Hallows in order to potentially become powerful enough to stop Voldemort… and save the world.
The correct answer is really both. And Harry gives up the power once he has defeated the big bad.
So with us… what are we going to do? Seek the Hallows… or the horcrux? And once we gain one or the other… what then? What do we do?
Can we give up power that easily?
Will one of us choose to help others and not ourselves? Or will we continue to vie for the top spot on our own?
Hallows or Horcruxes?
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I feel when you take into account human instinct, fight or flight and the snap judgement/drive towards self preservation that I believe @larry was talking about earlier, wouldn’t we always choose Hallows? So then I guess it becomes a question of whether we’d use our power to benefit more than just ourselves?
I would use mine to take all the pineapple off your pizza. Just FYI.
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I think we’re already seeing the divisions that Noah and the OSDM might want thanks to the events from yesterday and that those divisions are only going to deepen.
It’s obvious to me that this experiment from Michelle and the OSDM is about desire and how far someone is willing to go to obtain what they desire-even if it means cutting the bonds you have with others.
Some have already expressed a willingness to do whatever is needed to obtain whatever power Noah could be offering. Others have shown that they value the bonds they have and won’t step on them at Noah’s request.
I wonder, as the experiment continues, what quick decisions people will make under tough circumstances and how those will impact the future.
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So, @wanda102 that takes us to the next step. Hallows are the immediate, instinctual response. Self preservation. Hallows are the more reasoned, logical response. Greater good. The trick, as @thebuz implies, is that the true answer lies in toeing the line between the two. Heart and head. As it has always been, as it always shall be.
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Yes @bruinbown! It’s all about finding balance. If you tip the scales too much one way or the other you may lose yourself and the battle itself, whatever that may be to you.
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Absolutely spot on @bruinbown (also sorry I didn’t get to chat with you last night!) I think it’s important to, as Larry had suggested, listen to the voice that tells you to act only for your own purpose, but not always obey it. Problem we’ll be facing I imagine is not having a whole lot of time to find the line to toe.
This whole thing in itself is exposing the most basic of our human nature by forcing us to act before “rational” thought kicks in.
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I don’t want to jump in on this too much cos I want to hear from others but @bcbishop just made me think: are the Sinclar’s trying to create evolved humans that only act on pure instinct? If you had no relationships with other humans, you’d always choose Power to benefit yourself. As people with established relationships with others, we see that as a flawed way of living, but from a “base” point as he says, isn’t a live without deference to the needs of others a sort of “perfect” form? That’s creepy.
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Kind of a tangent here, but the mention of scales here brings to mind the one that Bryan missed in the hotel room. It’s been mentioned on here before, but the ancient Egyptians believed in weighing the hearts of the dead against a feather representing truth and justice. From some quick reading, they also believed that the heart represented both emotion and intellect (head and heart, if you will). If the heart balanced against the feather, the dead could be reborn into the afterlife, if not, they just ceased to exist. Could there be some kind of judgement component as this thing goes on?
Back to Horcruxes and Hallows. Not only were they both important to defeating Voldemort, but (and I may be misremembering here a bit) each kind of led to each other. The quest to destroy the Horcruxes leads them to the tale of the Hallows. Skipping over a ton of stuff…Harry uses the the ring, which helps him realize sacrificing himself is the correct option, in doing so, the (second to?) last Horcrux is destroyed, he is able to be reborn, which allows him to defeat Voldemort. I guess what I’m trying to say is that one isn’t necessarily more important than the other but fusing both sets of desires together to achieve that balance.
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Did someone say Harry Potter @thebuz @nothenrygale?
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@wanda102 I’m not sure I would agree with you regarding what one would do if one did not have a relationship with humans, but I hear you and see your point.
My only question regarding whether or not Noah is trying to create an evolved human based off of pure instinct would be wouldn’t creating an evolved human based on pure instinct be a de-evolution? By removing the reasoning and logic involved with being human and reducing us to reacting on base, one could argue animalistic, instinct, wouldn’t that render them as subhuman?
(My questions come from a perspective of someone who’s been involved with behavioral modification for ASD so, if I offend, my apologies.)
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@birdiesrunamok not offended in the least, because you are absolutely right. I am thinking more what Noah & Co specifically might think represents “evolution.” A human being is unique because of their need to connect with other humans vs most animals, of course. If you take out the thing (relationships) that would make you hesitate before a selfish decision, wouldn’t that be what Noah might see as the key to getting what you want?
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@wanda102 I can see Noah seeing acting on pure instinct as a gateway to getting what he wants. If he can unlock that ability in others, then perhaps it would have the intended conclusion that he wants. However, I wonder if he realizes that those who act on pure instinct aren’t exactly healthy for the further evolution of mankind. Though that can easily lead into a conversation of what is beneficial to society vs what is beneficial to the individual, which I think we don’t need to get into in the case of Noah. It’s pretty obvious where he stands as of now.
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I think, for humanity, more than pairing off or relationships is the ability to reason, to tell the lizard brain to fuck off. We can delay gratification. Decide “I’m not going to eat this” or “I’m not going to run from this.” “I’m going to plan for the future and not just do what feels good every moment of every day.”
The lizard brain is predictable. Easily manipulated. Almost as f it was programmed. We’ve already seen people make snap decisions in this game, acting on instinct. And I have a feeling that isn’t going away anytime soon. These are the situations where the logical brain is little help. If you don’t have time to think a problem out, you don’t have time to find the best solution, you just respond. Noah may claim to live his life that way, but I am pretty sure he doesn’t. But if his followers do, then he can manipulate. You don’t make a master plan based off of instinctual responses, you plan it carefully, logically. You don’t reach the level of “success” Noah has claimed to reach without having the ability to be a few steps ahead of your competition.
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Fascinating theory! Just wanted to add my thoughts, apologies if they are rehashing much of what has been said.
I always saw Horcruxes and Hallows as being very similar in that they both have the ability to make a person go mad but in different ways, both from fear of death. In the case of Horcruxes, the act of splitting the soul (exponentially in the case of Voldemort) leads to madness. It turned the very calculating and intelligent power-hungry Tom Riddle into an impulsive power-hungry maniac Voldemort.
On the other hand…. Grindelwald. With his often alluded to love of Dumbledore, the emotional reaction to Ariana’s torment by muggles, it seems that Grindelwald’s quest for power (and thus the Hallows) is far more emotionally based. For the greater good, to protect people like him, like Ariana. Although it is not as obvious as Voldemort’s descent into madness, their meeting (as presented to readers by Harry’s vision) demonstrates that Grindelwald lost everything, resigned to his fate and yet still laughing. The elder wand manipulating the wielder’s emotional state, causing them to become rash and boastful. The cloak’s deception of making the wearer think that they are invincible, not just invisible. The stone, trapping the holder in the hope that they can one day bring who they see back.
Apologies for the ramblings of my conjecture. To tie this back to Noah, I think that he is creating a divide but not between winners and losers. Those who seek power from an intellectual perspective: The desire to rise above because they think they have qualities (whether it be a skill or the raw power of intelligence) to be powerful. On the other hand, those who seek power because of their emotions. Perhaps jaded by rejection? A desire to help others who have been hurt?
And through this winners and losers system, he is appealing to both. My guess is that he selected out those he saw immediately as more logical and calculating as winners, letting the “losers” fight for power driven by their emotional state.But as we see from Voldemort/Grindelwald, I think Noah (or whoever is behind him and the company) is playing a very dangerous game. Because either way, Hallows or Horcruxes, cold hard logic or rash illogical emotion, power leads to insanity of one kind or another. And perhaps that is their end game after all?
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@weaslette1233 Yes! Looking at the Hallows and Horcruxes as through the eyes of those seeking to use them for power is a whole other deal.
And I never realized that Grindewald was a Hallows guy and Voldemort was the Horcrux guy.
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@thebuz Yes, Grindelwald was in possession of the Elder Wand until Dumbledore “beat” him (although I’m pretty sure he surrendered). Apart from Harry, Dumbledore did have the three Hallows in his possession (although not all at the same time) but after all the mess with Grindelwald he never really used them besides the elder wand. But it also explains why he was so determined to get the stone out of the Gaunt ring (thus leading to his death) instead of just destroying it straight away.
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