August 2, 2017 at 11:36 am #21139LiaParticipant
@thegilded I’m so glad he had you write that last bit down. We’re all guilty of this sometimes, especially on social media. Oversharing, complaining, or (the worst) humble bragging forces people to engage with you because to not respond/like/share would almost be cruel, depending on how close of a friend they are. Compassion is a powerful thing. Sharing what makes you ugly makes you beautiful.August 2, 2017 at 11:41 am #21140Bryan BishopParticipant
I just hope he’s doing so in order to help us fend off the OSDM’s tactics much like @111error was hoping to, and not in order to create a new sort of OSDM from us.
I feel you @nothenrygale, but Noah basically just confirmed what some of us were saying yesterday. This is about empowering us by first doing nice things we feel comfortable with, and then asking us to use that newfound power to do bad things. All in the name of teaching us control over the outside world.
I think it’s going to be very important in the months ahead that we don’t judge Noah, Horace, The System, BOS, The OSDM, or anybody else on what we hope they’re doing. We need to try to evaluate them on what they’re actually doing. Otherwise we’ll get run over by a truck we are choosing not to see.August 2, 2017 at 11:47 am #21141SeanModerator
This is about empowering us by first doing nice things we feel comfortable with, and then asking us to use that newfound power to do bad things
Asking us to use that newfound power for our own gain. The judgement on whether something is good or bad is up to the individual perception and outside the scope of what The System is shaping up to be.
Besides, The System has always advertised teaching you how to be powerful, not how to concern yourself where on the arbitrary “good/evil” spectrum you lieAugust 2, 2017 at 11:47 am #21142Brad RuweParticipant
@bcbishop But…. isn’t that what he’s doing? Actually doing? He’s showing us how to put people in an emotional state where you can then lie to them and gain power over them. Yes it’s empowering us, but he’s ending these empowering statements with “next steps” that take things into dark territory. Power is not always used for good.August 2, 2017 at 11:49 am #21143KortneyParticipant
When you open up like that and have people respond to you? You have power over them when you get them into that place.
…sounds like iConfidant… is Noah connected to them after all? Fuckin hope not.
This is what I want you to do. Next time you do that, get them into that vulnerable place… I want you to outright lie to them. When you get them like that you can leverage them. All it’ll take is the right set of words.
This is incredibly scary. What has Noah lied about in the past? Horace “confirmed” (could be another lie) about Noah’s past/taking away his toys & puppy… But overall, that was the thing that people overall empathized with him for.
What if that was a lie? Is there anything else that could have been a lie from him to get leverage over us?August 2, 2017 at 11:55 am #21144Lauren BelloParticipant
(Note: I’m x-ing out some of my answers, because they got pretty personal, and I want to consider my mom’s feelings in all this. She’s quite private, and it would be wrong to expose her and my dad to the world without their knowledge. The truly important part of the conversation was, in the end, Noah’s questions. Anything paraphrased is in parentheses.)
I received a No Caller ID call, but I was in the middle of a work call. I regretfully let it go to voicemail. Fortunately, as I was wrapping up work, No Caller ID called again.
When I answered, Noah was quoting what sounded like a poem. An older one, that used the word “doth”. Something about the sun? But just then my coworker needed me, and I told Noah I had to put him on hold for a sec.
When I’d wrapped up the work situation, I came back and said, “Sorry about that. I’m back. You caught me at work.”
Noah: Lauren, just so we have an understanding, please don’t ever do that to me again.
Me, chuckling: Understood.
Noah: So how did it go yesterday, the call with your mother?
Me: You know what, I called her, I spoke to her…xxxxxx
Noah: …Why did you think you two were so close and she deserved that call?
Me: Because she gave up – she screwed her life over for me, in many ways. xxxxxx
Noah: That’s actually very touching. My relationship with my mother has always been…complicated. It’s a good reminder that sometimes relationships…there’s a lot of context there. Do you think you’re more similar to your mother, or…dare I ask, is your father around?
Noah: I’m gonna ask a question here. Do you ever wish (that you had a better dad)?
Noah: It’s one of the more – I guess, probably the greatest hurt (?) – is I find myself more like my father every day, in ways I didn’t even realize until it happened, you know?
Me: I’m sorry to hear that. Your dad doesn’t seem like a great guy.
Noah: Do you ever resent your mother for how much control she has over you and your happiness, and that you have to think about that she gave up everything for you, and that weight on you, make you feel guilty?
Noah: Hm. Does this affect your partner at all? Does he resent that?
Noah: Let me ask you this. Is there any sense of hate that ever comes up, when you think about it, and you have to deal with it, when you have (conflict with your parents)?
Me: I…no. I very rarely feel any kind of hate.
Noah: Well, let me tell you this, Lauren. Hate is a cleaner emotion. It’s precise, surgical. And love, no matter how supposedly pure, always has fallout. One day soon you find yourself on the brink, you’d be advised not to (? phone interference). This has been nice, though, Lauren. I’ll be in touch. Think I can promise that.
So, to recap:
Noah’s relationship with his mother is “complicated”.
Noah is becoming more like his father every day, in ways he doesn’t even realize. He doesn’t seem to like that about himself. (Although I’m guessing about the word “hurt” – it was staticky.)
Extrapolating – He resents his father for how much control he has over him.
Extrapolating – It affects his partner, Sarah, who also resents how much control Horace has over him.
Extrapolating – He hates his father. And he will continue hating his father. Because hate is simple, and love is complicated.
I really wish I could have heard the word when he said “One day soon you find yourself on the brink, you’d be advised not to”….whatever that final word was.
The tone of my call and the tone of Sean’s call sound…very different. Think he’s playing me?August 2, 2017 at 11:59 am #21145MeganParticipant
“one day soon you’ll find yourself on the brink…”
of love?August 2, 2017 at 12:01 pm #21146Buz WallickModerator
He very well could be playing you but that’s us just going off of hunches.
If we take it at face value… he just had a genuine sincere connection with you. Human to human.
I think that’s something we all strive for when it comes to our personal demons.
He didn’t try to one up you, or over shadow your answers with his own. He asked more questions (all the while answering them himself).
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter how we feel about your call. How do you feel about it, @daela?August 2, 2017 at 12:03 pm #21147CrystalParticipant
@daela I’m grasping at straws, but does this sound familiar?
“The higher the sun ariseth, the less shadow doth he cast; even so the greater is the goodness, the less doth it covet praise; yet cannot avoid its rewards in honours.” Lao TzuAugust 2, 2017 at 12:06 pm #21148Michael RizzoParticipant
After reading about these calls I was wondering something. If Noah is legit going against the flow of the OSDM, would it be possible Noah is doing what the System was advertised for but not what it was meant for? As in the System was always a tool of the OSDM but was never actually supposed to give its participants actual power, but Noah is doing just that. For whatever resistance or army or what not. At this point anythings possible but I feel like Noah isn’t necessarily trying to “burn it all down”, he just wants his own powerful life with his company and his wife without Hoarace and the OSDM breathing down his neck. @111error and the BOS could help him with that situation, and he could help us in the similar situation. Why would Noah, who’s all about being your own boss and having control, want his own father calling the shots and threatening his “army” and his own wife.August 2, 2017 at 12:07 pm #21149CristenParticipant
I do think there’s an element of being played here, @daela. What if everything we think is a glimpse into Noah’s makeup, his “hatred” of his father, his “complicated” relationship with his mother, even what Horace told Meghan about burning his toys and puppy, is a calculated show of feigned weakness to give him (and Horace) power?
Just like he instructed @thegilded to do, Noah told us a few “truths” about himself. They seem like cracks in his armor, but they’re not. His perceived weaknesses, eliciting sympathy from us, exactly like he explained, only gives him power over us.
It’s a neat trick. I look forward to becoming more adept at it.August 2, 2017 at 12:10 pm #21150Hannah SchenckParticipant
Noah: Lauren, just so we have an understanding, please don’t ever do that to me again.
Ahhhhh hahahaha this had me laugh out loud.
Seems like he felt pretty comfortable opening up to you in between the lines, as not to come outright and say it. Perhaps he used your relationship with you and your mother (and also maybe your father) to convey where he stands with his. He used his power over your situation to divulge into his own. He definitely gave us more info than we had before regarding his mother and solidifying our theories of his father.August 2, 2017 at 12:18 pm #21151Hannah SchenckParticipant
Noah: Weakness can look like a strength in front of weak people.
What. A. Statement. He. Left. You. With. This is a sure tell way of manipulation, even if it is not always intended, but in this case I feel that it is. Appeal and relate to their weakness and show them how to manifest it into strength by sharing your journey. Now you have gained a follower and their confidence in your ability to be strong. They will match what you do and convince themselves it will create strength within them as well. This can be used positively and negatively. In this case, I am still believing that the intentions are good.August 2, 2017 at 12:23 pm #21152KevinParticipant
@wanda102 A similar thing happened with the event on Saturday as well. Yes, Noah got people to understand that they could have an impact and how perception and value are related. But in a way he also showed a type of weakness by setting everyone up to help those around them. It looked like Noah had a soft spot and a lot of people became more open to The System. He used what people perceived about him to gain a measure of control and strength over the situation.
In that sense, there was a double meaning to the value as a perception lesson. If people have a certain perception of your value(s) as a person, that perception can be used for your own ends.August 2, 2017 at 12:27 pm #21153Lauren BelloParticipant
“The higher the sun ariseth, the less shadow doth he cast; even so the greater is the goodness, the less doth it covet praise; yet cannot avoid its rewards in honours.” Lao Tzu
@kipsie – I literally heard only about three words between the phone ringing and my coworker talking to me, but that may well have been it!
@thebuz – To be 100% honest, I felt connected to him. It was a good call. But his sudden “vulnerability” left me uneasy. If he was indeed dropping the mask, why drop the mask with me, “one of his harshest critics”? Hearing about Sean’s call made me think it’s more likely that he was living out his own advice: “Weakness can look like a strength in front of weak people.”
What if everything we think is a glimpse into Noah’s makeup, his “hatred” of his father, his “complicated” relationship with his mother, even what Horace told Meghan about burning his toys and puppy, is a calculated show of feigned weakness to give him (and Horace) power?
@wanda102 – That’s what I’m wondering. They do say that the pity play/victim stance is the go-to manipulative tool for sociopaths.
I don’t know what to believe.
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