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So I think a lot of people have probably kicked around the idea of Lust having something to do with the 7 Deadly Sins what with Lust being one of the big Seven. Buckle in, this here is a long post.
With the introduction of the Fluffer Nutter fellow it got me thinking more about it and that perhaps we may be seeing a set up of the 7 deadly sins representing these factions.
The System = Can very easily be applied to Greed or Pride. I lean more towards Greed though.
Greed (Latin, avaritia), also known as avarice, cupidity, or covetousness, is, like lust and gluttony, a sin of desire. However, greed (as seen by the Church) is applied to an artificial, rapacious desire and pursuit of material possessions.
iConfidant= Of course that’s LUST itself… but also I would say ENVY as well. See below for explanation.
ENVY
Envy (Latin, invidia), like greed and lust, is characterized by an insatiable desire. It can be described as a sad or resentful covetousness towards the traits or possessions of someone else. It arises from vainglory, and severs a man from his neighbor.Envy is said to be the motivation behind Cain murdering his brother, Abel, as Cain envied Abel because God favored Abel’s sacrifice over Cain’s.
Bertrand Russell said that envy was one of the most potent causes of unhappiness, bringing sorrow to committers of envy whilst giving them the urge to inflict pain upon others.
This is the sin every single person here is guilty of. We envy those who have interactions, get to play the game more, etc etc… This is why some people were upset about Sabrina. Most of us figured out that we were talking to Sabrina at some point before the reveal (though she did a fantastic job of changing up her writing styles) and perhaps subconsciously we all thought we were some what special for that kind of interaction and when it was revealed we were all on the same playing field it shook us. It took me a minute to realize that my brain did that to me without me realizing it until it was already post iConfidant event. A brilliant move on their part to stir up the emotions.
Fluffer Nutter = Well it can go many ways but I’m leaning towards Gluttony because that thing that’s bad for you tastes better therefor you gorge yourself.
GLUTTONY
Gluttony (Latin, gula) is the overindulgence and overconsumption of anything to the point of waste. The word derives from the Latin gluttire, meaning to gulp down or swallow.In Christianity, it is considered a sin if the excessive desire for food causes it to be withheld from the needy.
Because of these scripts, gluttony can be interpreted as selfishness; essentially placing concern with one’s own impulses or interests above the well-being or interests of others.
So here are the sins left:
SLOTH
Sloth (Latin, tristitia or acedia (“without care”)) refers to a peculiar jumble of notions, dating from antiquity and including mental, spiritual, pathological, and physical states. It may be defined as absence of interest or habitual disinclination to exertion.Sloth has also been defined as a failure to do things that one should do. By this definition, evil exists when “good” people fail to act.
That last line I think is very interesting and applies to a lot of the lessons we learned during Tension. It falls right in line with “Be Present” as we are all too lazy to make connections anymore. And when we stop those connections… evil can willfully brainwash a girl and we’ll just watch for entertainment purposes.
WRATH
Wrath (Latin, ira) can be defined as uncontrolled feelings of anger, rage, and even hatred. Wrath often reveals itself in the wish to seek vengeance.[39] In its purest form, wrath presents with injury, violence, and hate that may provoke feuds that can go on for centuries. Wrath may persist long after the person who did another a grievous wrong is dead. Feelings of wrath can manifest in different ways, including impatience, hateful misanthropy, revenge, and self-destructive behavior, such as drug abuse or suicide.My own personal sin.
PRIDE
The negative version of pride (Latin, superbia) is considered, on almost every list, the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins: the perversion of the faculties that make humans more like God—dignity and holiness. It is also thought to be the source of the other capital sins. Also known as hubris (from ancient Greek ὕβρις), or futility, it is identified as dangerously corrupt selfishness, the putting of one’s own desires, urges, wants, and whims before the welfare of people.Shit. I got this sin too.
And finally…
LUST
Lust, or lechery (Latin, “luxuria” (carnal)), is intense longing. It is usually thought of as intense or unbridled sexual desire, which leads to fornication, adultery, rape, bestiality, and other immoral sexual acts. However, lust could also mean simply desire in general; thus, lust for money, power, and other things are sinful. In accordance with the words of Henry Edward, the impurity of lust transforms one into “a slave of the devil”.Lust, if not managed properly, can subvert propriety.
What’s rather fascinating about LUST as a sin is that nearly all of its definitions can also be to the other sins. It’s almost a blanket definition SIN, and why I would deem it to be the sin EVERY SINGLE PERSON COMMITS. It’s not about sex… it’s a lust for everything else. Lust for more spaghetti=Gluttony; Lust to make more money than your friends=Envy; Lust to look the best=PRIDE; Lust to steal from the rich but keep to yourself= Greed; Lust to just lounge around and not do anything= Sloth; Lust for vengeance=Wrath.
So yeah… there’s some pure speculation for everyone to intake. It’s quite early and I’m two cups of coffee deep. Hope this wasn’t a ramble.
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This, yes. The Seven Deadly Sins always spoke to me as less of a warning against specific behavior than as a breakdown of human personality. The Sins themselves are gross exaggerations of one’a natural instincts.
Your theory also fits with Horace essentially telling us that there are no factions, there are no sides, this is all one thing. Angling a mirror in different directions to show us different sides of ourselves.
Dante’s Inferno names Pride as the overarching sin that guides the others. But why not Lust?
In Inferno Dante represents a journey through Hell as he explores increasingly grave sins. Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Anger, Heresy, Violence, Fraud, ending with Treachery, Judas churned in the teeth of Satan for eternity. We are being tought to sin with perfection, no? If you take away a fear of sin, what cause is there to see virtue?
Fun note: In the poem, Dante is led through hell by Virgil, the Roman poet. We’ve seen a few of those kicking around, huh?
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And since we’re on the subject of SINS here are the virtues that coincide. Because what comes up must come down, or in this case what goes down must come up.
Chastity (Lust)
Discretion of sexual conduct according to one’s state in life.Temperance (Gluttony)
Restraint, practicing self-control, abstinence, moderation and deferred gratification.Charity (Greed)
Generosity, charity, self-sacrifice; Charity—or love (agäpé)—is the greatest of the three theological virtues. “Caritas” is distinguished by being divinely infused into the soul—and by its residing in the will rather than emotions.Diligence (Sloth)
A zealous and careful nature in one’s actions and work; decisive work ethic, and perseverance.
Budgeting one’s time; monitoring one’s own activities to guard against laziness.Patience (Wrath)
Forbearance reflecting moderation. Building a sense of peaceful stability and harmony rather than conflict, hostility, and antagonism; resolving issues and arguments respectfully, as opposed to resorting to anger and fighting.
Showing forgiveness and being merciful.Kindess (Envy)
Compassion and empathy.Humility (Pride)
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it is thinking of yourself less. It is a spirit of self-examination; a hermeneutic of suspicion toward yourself and charity toward others.
Pride is not the opposite of shame, but the source of it. Humility is the antidote to shame.
Humility is the courage of the heart necessary to undertake tasks which are difficult, tedious or unglamorous, and to graciously accept the sacrifices involved. Giving credit where credit is due; not unduly glorifying one’s own self.
Refraining from despair; the ability to confront fear and uncertainty, or intimidation. -
Also let’s not forget that the wheel on the side of the forums has 7 unique words around it.
7 is a magical number all around, but I’m curious if those words can fit with the 7 Deadly sins.
Sex – Lust
Love – Lust again?
Control – Gluttony?
Lies –
Reflection – Pride?
Desire – Envy?-
7 is a magical number all around, but I’m curious if those words can fit with the 7 Deadly sins.
Sex – Lust
Love – Lust again?
Control – Gluttony?
Lies –
Reflection – Pride?
Desire – Envy?I would argue every one of these is a different form of Lust. Every one of them a different way a human reacts to the presence of Lust itself. Examples: You have sex with someone you shouldn’t, you love power and crave more, you seek to control your peers and surroundings, you rely on lies to hide your indiscretions, you reflect on yourself and try to make others alike, and you desire the world, laid out before you, constantly and immediately.
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On the subject of sins, let’s go back to “I pledge my desire for their sacrifice and freedom.” In Catholicism, there is a third destination besides heaven and hell – purgatory – where you go if you’re generally a decent person but had some unconfessed sins when you died. There, you’d suffer for those sins, and when you were finished, you’d ascend to heaven. One way for the living to help souls out of purgatory faster and into heaven is by praying for them, or by dedicating your earthly sufferings like “crediting” time served on a soul’s behalf. Basically, the living can pledge their virtues for the souls’ freedom from purgatory.
What if Lust is asking for a twisted version of this? Pledging one’s desires, aka sins, for someone’s sacrifice and freedom. Anoch and his cult members seem to gravitate towards darkness. I don’t want any part of giving them more victims to brainwash.
I think the clues are certainly pointing us towards the seven deadly sins. Whether it’s for real or a red herring I don’t know, but it sure ties together very well.
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Sloth has also been defined as a failure to do things that one should do. By this definition, evil exists when “good” people fail to act.
Can Sloth be applied to how we’re treating Otis? There’s a certain level of helplessness on our part, but we’re more or less sitting idly while he’s slowly destroyed/corrupted by the influence of those in power.
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Can Sloth be applied to how we’re treating Otis? There’s a certain level of helplessness on our part, but we’re more or less sitting idly while he’s slowly destroyed/corrupted by the influence of those in power.
Damn. Yeah that’s a thing isn’t it. We’ve seen this time and time again. With watching Andy go into that warehouse, watching Otis slowly go the way of the helmet…
We’re all just sitting here complacent watching the shadows on the cave wall thinking it’s all fun and games.
Oooo Ahh that’s how it always starts, but then later there’s running and screaming.
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This, yes. The Seven Deadly Sins always spoke to me as less of a warning against specific behavior than as a breakdown of human personality. The Sins themselves are gross exaggerations of one’a natural instincts.
Well this just untapped something in my memory palace. You ever hear of Enneagram of Personality?
It’s essentially a human psyche model theory that interconnects 9 different types of God-Given personalities and the virtues and sins that go along with it. And what do you know it’s a circle that looks like this:
From wikipedia
The enneagram figure is usually composed of three parts; a circle, an inner triangle (connecting 3-6-9) and an irregular hexagonal “periodic figure” (connecting 1-4-2-8-5-7). According to esoteric spiritual traditions, the circle symbolizes unity, the inner triangle symbolizes the “law of three” and the hexagon represents the “law of seven” (because 1-4-2-8-5-7-1 is the repeating decimal created by dividing one by seven in base 10 arithmetic). These three elements constitute the usual enneagram figure.
Essentially everyone is born with one of the 9 personality types, though everyone would find a little of themselves in each of them.
Type One is principled, purposeful, self-controlled, and perfectionistic.
Type Two is generous, demonstrative, people-pleasing, and possessive. (OH HI STACEY)
Type Three is adaptable, excelling, driven, and image-conscious. (OH HI SARAH)
Type Four is expressive, dramatic, self-absorbed, and temperamental. (OH HI NOAH).
Type Five is perceptive, innovative, secretive, and isolated.
Type Six is engaging, responsible, anxious, and suspicious.
Type Seven is spontaneous, versatile, acquisitive, and scattered.
Type Eight is self-confident, decisive, willful, and confrontational.
Type Nine is receptive, reassuring, complacent, and resigned.
And each one comes with it’s own sin if you will.
Now I don’t really know how this might tie into LUST but it might jog something loose for someone else. I do know that it could help us predict the actions of certain people in order to make choices that don’t get us hurt or murdered.
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I think you’re both right @wanda102 and @thebuz about Lust being interwoven into all of this. I see the breakdown like this:
Power = Greed
(The Investors, Tom, Horace, Sarah, etc., all wanting power to assert their individual will)Sex = Lust
(Maybe. I don’t think Lust Exp gas been that sexy to date, but it’s still early)Control = Wrath
(I view this separately from power because Control could be a mechanism for vengeance, justice,or shaping the world the way it “should be”. I think this may be the case for Sabrina. She lost everything and is back because she wants control. She wants to feel like the driver of her own life and she’s taken this very calculated route to do so through the iCon scheme. We can argue over her level of agency, but I think this is a move for Control)Lies = Sloth
(I think this ties into our complacency and acceptance of the world as framed by those with power.)Reflection = Pride
(with iCon, as well as the System, I think we pursued the images that spoke most to us and captured the version of ourselves we wanted most. Whether it was someone deep and emotional, witty and charming, powerful and strong, I think we pursued the people and systems we wanted to shape us. While there was a lot of earnestness from those who engaged iCon, I think there is some level of self- image manufacturing that happens. I unlink all of us wants to be loved, or at least understood and accepted as we are. I’m thinking of the crystallized branch with Stendhal. Or Sartre’s view on love as part revelation/sharing and part deception and imprisonment)Desire = Envy
(Desire implies dissatisfaction, I think, which when twisted by Lust is envious and self-serving. I’m mirroring a lot of what others said about wanting more interaction, more power, more recognition, etc.)Love = Gluttony
It’s just never enough, is it? -
Solid analysis there @lasalle.
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So since we’re on the subject of the Enneagram of Personality… I thought it kind of matched something we’ve seen before.
Thanks to @kipsie for photoshopping this together for me.
Take a look.
It would seem the personality types can line up quite well with the words written around the Lust Circle. Some words apply to more than one personality.
This is all pure speculation… but definitely something cool.
Type One is principled, purposeful, self-controlled, and perfectionistic. – Sex with a wing of Power.
Type Two is generous, demonstrative, people-pleasing, and possessive. – Love with a wing of Sex.
Type Three is adaptable, excelling, driven, and image-conscious. – Control with a wing of Love.
Type Four is expressive, dramatic, self-absorbed, and temperamental. – Control with a wing of Lies.
Type Five is perceptive, innovative, secretive, and isolated. – Lies with a wing of Reflection
Type Six is engaging, responsible, anxious, and suspicious. – Reflection straight up.
Type Seven is spontaneous, versatile, acquisitive, and scattered. – Reflection with a wing of Desire.
Type Eight is self-confident, decisive, willful, and confrontational. – Desire straight up.
Type Nine is receptive, reassuring, complacent, and resigned. – Power with a wing of desire.
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Something else that I’m reminded of here is Joseph Campbell’s A Hero’s Journey (as explained by Dan Harmon and his story circle concept.)
1. A character is in a zone of comfort,
2. But they want something.
3. They enter an unfamiliar situation,
4. Adapt to it,
5. Get what they wanted,
6. Pay a heavy price for it,
7. Then return to their familiar situation,
8. Having changed. -
Ooooo @kipsie
If we apply the words on the circle to the Heroes Journey circle it would seem the positive ones seem to be on top (Power, Desire, Sex) with Love and Reflection bridging the top and bottom half together because Love can be tumultuous and reflection can change your self persona. Lies, and Control are on the bottom half… those being the far more negative brands on the circle of Lust.
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@coryphella Working fine on my end. Anyone else having issues?
Here is a link. http://i.imgur.com/ClhUnOj.png
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@coryphella How about this mirror?
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