April 12, 2017 at 11:28 pm #8031
I haven’t been able to be as active this week as I would have liked to, due to work and have finally gotten a chance to catch up a bit.
I had some thoughts come to me regarding Lust and where this might all be going. This is mostly going to be hist a ramble of my thoughts, but I hope you guys find something in it. Might be way off the mark, but here we go:
With the addition of iconfidant and what we (kind of) know about and speculated on about The System and the possibility of the OSDM creating an AI possible of replicating humans by gathering information on us, my thoughts are this:
They are gathering our information, emotional responses, and now with iconfidant- trying to gather deeper information about our individual personalities, our insecurities, love life, etc. In order to potentially create this “AI”.
What if in utilizing this AI, they are creating “shadow ” versions of all of us. The “complete” versions of ourselves based on our own individual criteria. Some of us want love, money, power, happiness, etc etc so they will show us what that version of ourselves would be like via this AI.
And in showing a different version of ourselves to us, it would present a very interesting opportunity to all of us.
If you met yourself, would you like yourself?
Better yet, if you met what you think is the Better version of yourself, would you like the person?
To me, this opportunity gives us the potential to realize that LUSTING after the things we want to change about ourselves, whether material or immaterial, can lead to a degradation of who we really are.
This is not to say that change and introspection and trying to better yourself is not a good thing, but that thinking you are irreparably flawed and you have to be this perfect person can lead your mind and soul down a dangerous path of self loathing and depreciation.
Everyone has flaws, that’s what makes us human. Without those flaws- if we all were to become the perfect version of ourselves – what would we really be?
Again, not sure if this is a little too rant-y. But just know that these thoughts and ideas deeply fascinate me and this bit of theory came from my heart and deep in my mind, and even outside of LUST, I think of these things often.
Feel free to discuss below
Thanks for reading.
April 12, 2017 at 11:29 pm #8033
**sorry for any typos above! Had to type all that on my phone!**
April 12, 2017 at 11:38 pm #8039
April 12, 2017 at 11:50 pm #8047CandaceParticipant
I think this is really interesting if that’s what they’re planning to do! However, what about the people who aren’t getting an AI friend. Only a handful are actually getting a phone call about it. I’m not sure if the rest of us will have the same opportunity to provide such information. UNLESS the initial group is the beta test and then they open the survey to the general public and start reaching out to a broader audience of people. The survey alone could be all the information they need and the shadow us friends will just start appearing over time! ? kind of like the shadow profiles but on a bigger more accurate scale. that could be really cool
April 12, 2017 at 11:51 pm #8048Anonymous
I love the idea of our Shadows being the absolute perfect version of ourselves. Or the most pure versions anyway.
April 13, 2017 at 12:05 am #8049SageParticipant
So our “friendship that transcends physical boundaries” is with our perfect ourselves? Trying to wrap my head around the logistics of this? But it sounds creepy.
April 13, 2017 at 12:10 am #8052MarandaParticipant
Ooh @anakindrew I like this! I was thinking along these same lines and you expressed it better than I could. “If you met yourself, would you like yourself?” Definitely food for thought, and reminiscent of the mirror event that the Tension ARG had.
In college there were a few times where I really had to take a step back and look at myself from a third-person perspective, only to see that I didn’t like how I was acting or how I had handled a situation. Those are things that I’m actively trying to work on now, but to be able to see myself and all of my flaws objectively would be a real eye-opener. If that means giving the OSDM some of my data, it’s a price I’ll gladly consider.
April 13, 2017 at 12:48 am #8058Lawrence MeyersParticipant
@anakindrew This is intriguing stuff, and pulls together all that’s been discussed. I dig it! If we take Shadow Larry at his word about this being about Ouroboros — the snake eating itself — the image and state of wholeness of Being — then you are right on.
Would we like ourselves if presented with our entire Self? In theory, the answer would be yes by definition. The Self represents wholeness. To take your idea one step further, and incorporating the quote we got today from DORIAN GRAY, perhaps the question is, “CAN we dare like ourself DESPITE our Shadow?”
And I think you nailed it when you wrote, “thinking you are irreparably flawed and you have to be this perfect person can lead your mind and soul down a dangerous path of self loathing and depreciation.” This is repression of the Shadow, which will only pop up again, and make things worse.
“They are gathering our information, emotional responses, and now with iconfidant- trying to gather deeper information about our individual personalities, our insecurities, love life, etc.” I think this is what they were getting at with @coryphella, whispering to her, “Sometimes being married to someone is a challenge. Having a baby can be a burden”. Because these things are true — I can speak to both — yet we repress those thoughts for obvious reasons.
April 13, 2017 at 6:09 am #8069MeganParticipant
thinking you are irreparably flawed and you have to be this perfect person can lead your mind and soul down a dangerous path of self loathing and depreciation.
Well that just describes my entire state of being.
I’m fairly certain that I’m cursed with some painful self-awareness, and I really don’t think there’s anything a shadow-me could show me that would surprise me. I am convinced that you all hate me because I hate me. I work myself to exhaustion because I can’t stand being alone with myself for five minutes. I don’t necessarily want to be a more perfect person, just a more normal one.
If I met myself I wouldn’t like myself. But that’s never been the question I’ve been trying to answer, honestly – the question I’ve been wanting to answer is, if I met myself, would I like my work (as in, my output as an artist)? In the past 5 years I’ve started to see actual effects on my physical health from this and now really need to rethink priorities – self, and work, and time spent with Travis.
This is why my perfect companion is a cat, btw. I’m way too depressing for people. 😉
April 13, 2017 at 7:22 am #8075JeremyParticipant
These companies could be set up to do the same thing but attract different people. The System atracting people who lust for power, I confidant atracting people who lust for deep relationships. Its like we are going around the words on the Lust logo.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 1 month ago by Jeremy.
April 13, 2017 at 7:41 am #8079Anonymous
My response to this would be similar to @coryphella ‘s. I’m self-aware, but more so regarding my flaws rather than my strengths. And then having to act the way society asks us to creates further stress because there is an expectation to be a certain way, yada yada, all that jazz.
This is why I like animals. They don’t demand anything from me besides snuggles and food and I can be my most calm self. If Iconfidant would launch animal companions, they’d get all the information they’d need from me.
April 13, 2017 at 8:41 am #8096Brian EParticipant
@anakindrew Excellent post, I think you are really on to something here. I’m supposed to get a call from Stacey today, if I do I’ll think about the answer and be as honest and an direct as I can. I’d consider my self a fairly private person, but Tension before and now Lust has gained a certain level of trust that I don’t share easily. To me it just makes the entire experience better, if they are going to try to push our buttons I’ll let them know the right ones to press.
There’s be some massive positive change in my personal life, as well as so far I’ve made some friends in the community, and met a bunch of smart and color personalities by going to the meet ups. I’m very curious what’s in store for all of us. @bryan mentioned that for many of us maybe there’s a story line that “The Minds From Then Tension Experience” have us following based on what they know. I’m malleable at this point, absorbing information and mostly doing what I can to catch up on Lust during a busy work week.
@larry-meyers I enjoy the way you explain the deeper concepts, and give your own thoughts, all so elegantly written you are the Giles of the group and we are all so fortunate to have you.
April 13, 2017 at 10:48 am #8141ChrisParticipant
Some great notions here, @anakindrew, you’re diving into some great, Star Trekky, Big Idea sort of questions. What does it actually mean to be human? Isn’t it the desire to better ourselves, to struggle against adversity from without and within in order to achieve what we want? But what would happen if we were able to remove the struggle? With a click of a button we could lose that weight, become less introverted, be given that promotion, acquire that skill. I would argue that the worth of such achievements and how our personality is shaped around them is by how we earn it. In employing this almost magical instant gratification to all wish fulfillment, we are in essence giving up ourselves to attain what we imagine is our best self. All dystopian stories have some version of this, from 1984 to The Stepford Wives. A happy, untroubled mind brings harmony. But in all of those cases there is an inhumanity to the contentedness, and always a malevolent force behind it benefitting from the pacification. Everything has a cost.
April 13, 2017 at 10:38 pm #8404
Guys, thank you so much for your responses. This has given me a lot to read over and think about, and it’s amazing how much some of you opened up as well.
@lilmsfancpants – I’d love your thoughts on this, especially given your interactions with Noah today.
What happened today and the appearance of actual (maybe) AI further confirms my theory for me.
They’re utilizing these different self – help sights to target people’s specific emotions and using the info they collect to build a perfect AI- ones who aren’t discernable by people like Noah.
If that happens, who’s to say who’s real and who’s not? Will we all be replaced by more perfect versions of ourselves?
Was the signal sent out over the Confidant phone calls the first step to becoming an AI?
I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS!
April 14, 2017 at 2:18 pm #8627JohnParticipant
I think a shadow you would convince yourself of the inaccuracy of your conclusion that “you all hate me because I hate me”.
“I’m fairly certain that I’m cursed with some painful self-awareness, and I really don’t think there’s anything a shadow-me could show me that would surprise me. I am convinced that you all hate me because I hate me.”
I think if you saw your shadow you, you might realize that although you have a few flaws you are innately good. You are more important and lovable than your work product… No matter how good your art!
April 14, 2017 at 2:38 pm #8635JohnParticipant
I think everyone is irreparably flawed and is part of the human condition. I think not accepting these flaws or refusing to acknowledge them results in unhealthy appetites and desires (i.e. LUST). Everyone else can see our LUSTS but we can’t quite see them.
Some Examples: The alcoholic who drinks a fifth a day and tells himself he is a social drinker. The workaholic whose family barely knows him convinces himself he is just doing his job. The guy desperately trying to add another notch to his bedpost even though there are dozens already there.
In a strange way, I think our shadow selves are evident to everyone else but ourselves. We lie to ourselves allowing ourselves to feed the flaw until we have desire run a muck
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