April 4, 2017 at 3:25 pm #5954Annie LesserParticipant
Sorry if this has already been discussed. I’m not much of a forums person in general.
There have been multiple references to the story and just trying to figure out the importance of it. What are the words again? “When they stop believing you, you know it has begun.” Or something like that right?
1. Are the shadow versions of people supposed to make us think people are crying wolf about stuff they don’t know about?
2. Is this diabetes thing to make it seem as if Noah is crying wolf?
3. Other thoughts?
July 23, 2017 at 9:41 pm #20167
Been thinking about Little Timmy lately, and how we really have no proof he actually exists. Unless I’m forgetting something, we only “know” he exists because 1) Noah has said he has a son to whom he reads every night, and 2) Noah comments on a stuffed animal on the floor of their living room during the “happy married couple” periscope.
Also been thinking about the whole Boy Who Cried Wolf fable (Little Timmy’s favorite bedtime story). It’s generally viewed as a cautionary tale against lying. But, Noah views the main character as an example of a self-made individual, someone who built himself up from nothing (still puzzling over that interpretation).
In re-reading the original fable, I noted that it’s actually not the Boy who gets eaten by the wolf. He merely looses credibility. His flock are the ones who are devoured. Which made me wonder…
1) In this experience, who is the Boy/the liar?
2) Who are the sheep?
3) Who is the Wolf?
4) “When they stop believing you, that’s when you’ll know it’s begun.” What, exactly, will begin?
There was once a young Shepherd Boy who tended his sheep at the foot of a mountain near a dark forest. It was rather lonely for him all day, so he thought upon a plan by which he could get a little company and some excitement. He rushed down towards the village calling out “Wolf, Wolf,” and the villagers came out to meet him, and some of them stopped with him for a considerable time. This pleased the boy so much that a few days afterwards he tried the same trick, and again the villagers came to his help. But shortly after this a Wolf actually did come out from the forest, and began to worry the sheep, and the boy of course cried out “Wolf, Wolf,” still louder than before. But this time the villagers, who had been fooled twice before, thought the boy was again deceiving them, and nobody stirred to come to his help. So the Wolf made a good meal off the boy’s flock, and when the boy complained, the wise man of the village said:
“A liar will not be believed, even when he speaks the truth.”
July 23, 2017 at 9:50 pm #20169
#TeamNoah would be a hell of a flock..
We could (and only could) say that Noah could be the Boy/Liar, everybody joining him could be the flock, and the wolf… Well. Lets think again what this is all about. Collecting data? Collecting emotional reactions? Who could harvest this? Dear Father Horace? And if so, whe they (the flock) stops believing… Thats when the real emotional reactions are gonna start. (Does it make any sense?)
July 23, 2017 at 9:59 pm #20170CristenParticipant
Astute as always, @superstar. We have seen this idea of unreliable narrators and doubted motives based on personal character though a lot of the art we’ve looked at throughout the chapters so far, as well.
We have to assume we are the flock, no? So is Noah our boy who cried wolf? Or is that too easy? Perhaps it’s a statement about the intentional (if well-meant) deception of BOS to gain recruits? Will some of us doubt Morgan’s motives based on his prior actions? Will we doubt Noah’s? Should we?
At this point, and knowing it only grows darker from here, if we ask ourselves who we can trust, we may start to become hard-pressed to come up with an external answer.
July 23, 2017 at 10:04 pm #20171
@kwanyin Yeah, that makes some sense (as much as any of this “makes sense” lol!).
But, here’s the thing… in the fable, the Boy doesn’t lie to his flock, he lies to the villagers, who are there to protect him and his sheep. So, if we are the sheep, and Horace is the wolf, then does that mean there’s someone else that Noah is lying to?
What if Noah is the Boy/liar, and his family are the flock/sheep (the ones he’s charged with protecting)? Are we the villagers who are rushing to his side when he calls to provide amusement for the bored shepherd?
July 23, 2017 at 10:18 pm #20172
But again, for me, its all about the “what does he want from it”. I feel like the flock are the ones who will be sacrificed – it could be his family, if this is all a thing for Noah taking over and putting Horace down. In the tale, the flock is a casuality, but here, after using the tale as a metaphor, it would be a sacrifice, right?
If the flock are us as @wanda102 said, or even just #teamnoah, maybe its not a matter of him lying (because like many who believes in him say, he is very up front about his nonsense), but more about him lurking them to the slaughter house… He is not lying. He is promissing they will become more like him. What is he? Maybe thats also a good question. Is he a pawn in his daddy’s hands? Is he a rebel trying to break free (even if only for his own gain)? Tell me to wich God you will offer the prey and I will tell wich prey will suit better.
July 23, 2017 at 10:20 pm #20173
If the family is the flock and we are the villagers, does it mean when we stop listening the cries from help, thats when all will begin… Like the downfall of the family? Maybe.
July 23, 2017 at 10:34 pm #20174
Oh, dang… @kwanyin and @wanda102… this has all got my mind going! “We pledge our desire for their sacrifice and freedom”? At the warehouse break-in, Noah warned us that we had no idea what we’d signed up for. Is the flock going to be sacrificed to destroy the Sinclair family? Will we find out that Noah is faking allegiance only to turn against his family in the end? I keep thinking back on Lia’s meeting with him… he didn’t come across quite as abrasive and disinterested as he is nowadays… is he putting on an act?
I’m rambling at this point. I’m tired. But, I have the feeling it’ll be a while before my brain quiets down enough to actually fall asleep.
July 23, 2017 at 10:49 pm #20175
Well, it could all be true. It could also be that this Noah from the videos is an AI thing, it could be that this is all a sacrifice to bring the mother back from the dead, it could any of this – and this are only the theories we came up since friday. But the point is: whats diferent? Whats new? Wich one of this possibilities sees the whole picture? And where Timmy fits in all this? Why creating a son? Right now, as is almost 3am here in Brazil, Im starting to think that Timmy is the Antichrist they will try to raise from hell with the keys from their logo, that will be activated as the chapters/words unveil and we put our emotions and darkness into it. Thats, my friend, is how you really pledge to sacrifice yourself. All by free will. 😉
August 2, 2017 at 10:03 pm #21184
I may have figured out Noah’s interpretation of TBWCW. Or, I’m totally wrong. But, here goes…
The shepherd boy managed to manipulate and gain power over the townspeople by feigning vulnerability and weakness. Even when the wolf actually did attack, it wasn’t the boy who suffered, it was his flock.
Perhaps Noah views the shepherd boy as a “self-made, self-actualized” being because the boy figured out how to use “weakness” to his advantage, as a means of manipulation.
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