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This is long, so apologies in advance. Some of these ideas have been hit upon a couple of times by various people, but the emails we saw this morning had me thinking about them even more. Could Noah Sinclair be Satan (or the Antichrist), and is The System his way of recruiting followers?
Back when we first learned about Lust, @larry brought up that the tagline “Sin with perfection” may have been a play on words with religions implications, potentially referring to the inverse of the Second Coming. Then, when the Lust forums finally went live, we saw that same phrase with a logo next to it: a snake. Snake/devil/Eden/temptation. We’ve heard that song before.
Then came the reveal of Noah Sinclair’s site. We’ve generally assumed that LUST was going to be about sex, power, and domination. (“Gloryhole Be!”) But one can also lust for power, money, and success, as well as sex. All things, it turns out, that Noah hits upon on his website.
There’s also the question of Noah’s Frank T.J. Mackey-esque philosophy. “Take what’s yours before they take theirs.” As @kingkill33 and @meghanmayhem pointed out, Noah is basically espousing many of the same tenants of LaVeyan Satanism. While that’s not actually a religious philosophy (nor one that views Satan as an actual, supernatural being), it’s nevertheless the doctrine that’s described in the Satanic Bible — and exactly the kind of worldview that Satan probably would be in favor of.
Lastly; today’s emails. There appear to have been three variants. The first (“Congratulations”) asked questions about what people wanted most, and what was getting in the way. The second, (“Not selected but not eliminated”) added one more question: How far are you willing to go to achieve this desire?
This seems like a dare, testing people to see how much they’re willing to give up in order to join the System. Perhaps even their soul?
And then there was the third email, that went out to the “losers.” (Way to push buttons there, Team Lust.) It contained this chilling paragraph:
Make no mistake though, this is not the last you will see or hear of Noah Sinclair as I guarantee our clients will be more than happy to take your money and power as they conquer all that surrounds you in the very near future.
Those “clients” can only be the other disciples of the System. And if so, this sounds like Sinclair’s aim is to create an army of devout followers who will spread The Gospel of Noah across the world — until they have conquered all.
The implications are quite sinister. And to top it all off, we have the practical impact of the different emails themselves. By sending out different responses to different people, Noah and Sarah are stirring up anger, resentment, and trying to divide a united Tension community into haves, have-nots, and maybe-haves-we’ll-see-about-your-answers.
Granted, none of this speaks to the meta-narrative, the OSDM, or anything of that sort. While I have my suspicions, we don’t even really know if that entity will even be part of this show.
But what does seem clear is that if the Devil wanted to rule the world, using people’s desires, fears, and insecurities to feed them a philosophy that encouraged them to abandon the better angels of their nature, all in the name of personal gain, would be a pretty great way to do it.
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@bcbishop – Yup, I’m on the same page as you with this, and I crafted a response email with this in mind.
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That’s a very interesting theory @bcbishop, the system does seem to be looking for a certain type of person, and everyone will certainly not fit that.
What I find interesting is that technically we have not seen any direct connection between Noah and LUST itself. The forum was “spammed” by people pointing to his website, and some people remember seeing him at Tension, but so far there has been no direct information from who/whatever is behind LUST and these forums as to what this is all about. Perhaps this is just one thing that will be thrown at us as something to lust for (power, control), and other things will be given later as well (sex, desire) through some other means?
Because there will probably only be a few people that will get in to his program it seems, so what will the rest of us be doing? I’m also slightly scared for those chosen as to what they will be facing!
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I’m on board with your theory. It makes a whole lot of sense. Now the question is that if it’s true, do we WANT to be part of the devil’s army?! I’d like to think I’m smarter than that. But would I do anything to be more involved in LUST?? a deep yearning lust for lust if you will?! Fuck yea. Does that mean I lust for Noah’s acceptance into his big boy club? Sure. But I’m also already pretty good at “not giving a fuck”. We’re all in the devil’s playground waiting for our turn to play
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So being a loser is really winning! Interesting perspective, my guess is maybe another person or group will appear, maybe it isn’t for a long time, so lot’s can happen. It’s hard to know how this plays out, but it’s getting interesting already.
@bcbishop I met you last night at No Bar. I was that guy! -
In addition to all the religious allusions, which I think you’re spot on about, learning about the different types of e-mails definitely makes me think there’s a craftiness to Noah’s recruitment strategies that is very befitting of the devil. Isn’t the devil known for always pulling tricks and manipulating people in addition to just classic Faustian enticement? The separation of the participants into factions of losers, those accepted, etc., seems tailor-made to make EVERYBODY want in on this, much more effectively than just opening the door to everyone would. My e-mail box is empty and I’m frothing at the mouth refreshing it, for example. I have to imagine I’m not the only one. If Noah isn’t the devil, he might as well be for how much temptation he’s putting in us already.
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I feel your pain @maxzumstein. *refresh* Not that I need that stupid email for my sense of self worth. *refresh*
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@bcbishop
“We’ve generally assumed that LUST was going to be about sex, power, and domination. (“Gloryhole Be!”) But one can also lust for power, money, and success, as well as sex.”I might be super weird, but I actually thought Lust was going to be primarily about love ❤️ and a bit about desires (not sexually) but things.
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It seems strange that he would write that whole bit about his father in story section on his website if he was the Devil. Of course, he could be lying about it. But, if he is the devil than he kicked God out of the building and God shook his hand because he’s stronger than him? If that were the case than I think Noah already won. Also, I would hope the Devil would have a little bit more tact and slightly more class than this clown. I mean the idea is for him to lure you into something you want, not be put off by someones douchebagery (is that a word?).
Could definitely be like a lower level demon, working for the actual Devil, made a deal with a crossroads demon…or…. uh, anyone a Supernatural fan here? He feels like Dick Roman. He could be a Leviathan! haha
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@darthzannah I definitely see a Leviathan vibe there!
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@lenize haha yes!! Someone gets it!! haha If we see black ooze anywhere we know it has to be!
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@darthzannah or if he has yellow eyes that would also be very telling!
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@lenize uh oh. yellowed eyed demon! Then maybe someone on the forums that has demon blood in them! woah woah… sorry way too far down that rabbit hole haha.
But…. I do love the similarities haha
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Lol! @darthzannah if we started adding supernatural mythology to this the rabbit hole would get really deep! Noah could fit into quite a few roles including, as what was already speculated, Lucifer himself.
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@lenize oh yeah waaaay deep lol That’s a long fall. But, the mythology with the Devil right, in everything I’ve seen he needs your permission. Whether it’s using your body as a vessel in Sammy’s case or signing an agreement, the Devil needs your OK to take your soul (or whatever his goal in this case is).
Interesting tactic to be essentially a motivational speaker to get people to say “yes”. If that is the case.
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If Noah is connected with the demonic side of things (supernaturally or biblically), a seminar like he is presenting with people getting chosen would be a great way to recruit souls for nefarious purposes.
Also the fact that some people gets chosen and others not would generally make the people who got chosen more likely to stick with it and do things he asks, even if they might not normally.
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This is such a cool theory, and makes so much sense. Noah straight up asking us what we want, and what we need to overcome to get it.. we’re literally making a deal with the devil for the thing we want more than anything else.
I remember hearing or reading something about Lust being more than the obvious sexual tones associated with the word, and more about how far we’d go for the thing we want.. and here we are, making deals with the devil, right off the bat. idk about y’all but I’m ready to be destroyed.
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So @addisonborn just how far do you think you’d go for everything you ever wanted…
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I’m not saying I made a deal with the devil or anything but I’m suddenly really good at playing blues guitar. Side note: Might he be Anoch?
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I agree, @shinobi, it’s good to remember that we’ve already been introduced to the belief system including a mysterious and possibly nefarious higher power. If Noah does indeed have supernatural ties, I would hope they would be tied to Anoch and not just the generic Christian devil. Maybe one of the ceremonies the OOA enacted during Tension actually worked, but not as they intended, and who we knew as Suit Guy was affected somehow, even inhabited. So now he’s moved from his relatively small background position to front and center.
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@macbethinabathtub Well said. It’s also interesting to note that Suit Guy didn’t show up until after several Ascensions were attempted. Maybe one of them worked in a way that was unexpected.
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Well here is another weird “coincidence” I did a google image search on the logo we all received at the bottom of our emails. Can someone else verify my results. I am getting “Best guess for this image – Proverbs 3:7” which is really weird cus the image looks nothing like the logo’s that google pulled up. BTW if this is what other people pull up as well the verse is “Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.”
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@macbethinabathtub – Remember that even during his “small background position” he was essentially revered, causing any room he was in to turn away. He may have only been a “small background position” because we were in a different module, so to speak. As it was implied in Tension, They have many different chapters, factions, sections, whatever you want to call them across the globe. Maybe each is a different story or approach to their ends
Tension showed us that we need to be subservient to Anoch to receive his blessing but we may well be on a new path, one in which we need to either reshape ourselves or make a deal with what some others (erroneously, in my opinion) are calling the devil in order to be among the Blessed
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@lukasrl I got “american apparel high waisted jeans” as the best guess for the logo! 😀
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@lenize I’d do what I need to, but I’d make sure the devil knows that a deal goes both ways.
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All this looks like it adds up, but honestly I’m kind of hoping they don’t go in this direction. It’s more frightening if he’s just a person. A human who is greedy, awful, power hungry, narcissistic and will do whatever to get what he wants. The devil makes it well, almost acceptable – that is what the devil does after all that’s what we expect from him. But, if Noah is just a guy and behaves this way… that’s terrifying. Like how the OSDM just brainwashed the people of the OOA. They are just people and that’s what made it really scary.
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@thegilded Sure, I agree. My favorite theory is still that this is the birth of a more aggressive faction tonally in line with what Michelle introduced in the final days before The End. There was obviously internal strife within the organization and I think we will see that played out on a larger stage. I don’t especially buy into the idea of Noah being the devil either. I just think that as we parse each possibility it’s helpful to look at it through the lens of the mythology already introduced.
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@addisonborn, do make sure it’s a good deal then!
Noah seems like the type to make deals that would mostly/only be to His advantage 🙂
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@chelsea, I like the theory of the Devil, but I highly doubt the story will take that direction. Anoch was a fake construct created by The OOA Institute to keep them controlled. But the key word there is their God was fake, and used to control. Both Samson and Michelle both mocked Anoch, laughing when they said, “they actually believe this stuff.” Some may argue that God and the Devil are much in the same–fake constructs to keep us in line, walking a moral line. I can see them being fictitious entities, but to make one a real living breathing person who’s been alive for centuries–I think people know know it’s another OSDM rouse.
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@taysavestheday It’s one of the reasons why I don’t think they will go that way. One of them being, that’s such an easy story line. How many movies/ stories have we seen where the devil is a business man… got it done. The creators are really clever guys they have something else up their sleeves. Not to ignore the biblical references people are finding on this site, but I think it is important that during Ascension Addison/Sabrina was saying that no one has spoken to Anoch and that’s why someone needs to Ascend. Michelle, then laughing at everyone saying it was just made up, but her higher ups starting to believe it and that’s where her problems started. I know this is separate from Tension, but if there has already been a story about Anoch not being real, then I can’t imagine that the devil would be real in this.
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Bryan et al,
Some more food for thought. Let us also take note of the name “Noah”, the story of which we all know.
Less-known is that Noah was the inventor of wine, and the first to become drunk. There are differing interpretations regarding the significance of this story, but what is relevant here is that Noah planted a vine that Adam has cast out of the Garden of Eden. From the Jewish Encyclopedia: “When Noah was about to plant the vineyard, Satan offered him his help, for which he was to have a share in the produce. Noah consented. Satan then successively slaughtered a sheep, a lion, an ape, and a hog, fertilizing the ground with their blood. Satan thereby indicated to Noah that after drinking the first cup of wine, one is mild like a sheep; after the second, courageous like a lion; after the third, like an ape; and after the fourth, like a hog who wallows in mud (Midr. Agadah on Gen. ix. 21; Midr. Abkir, in Yalḳ., Gen. 61; comp. Gen. R. xxxvi. 7).Some interpretations say the vineyard bore fruit the same day that it was planted, and the same day, too, Noah gathered grapes, pressed them, drank their juice, became intoxicated, and was abused by Ham. Others say Noah gathered the grapes in the seventh month of fourth year after the Flood, but conserved the wine till the new moon of the first month of the fifth year, on which day he made a festival and offered sacrifices on the altar. Being filled with joy, Noah drank of the wine so freely that he became intoxicated.
Bottom line: Beware if Noah Sinclair offers you any wine!
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Bible… vomit.
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I’m strongly of the belief that the biblical references are red herrings. While the name certainly evokes certain callbacks to the bible, I think that “Noah Sinclair” was selected less as a biblical reference, but rather the most logical male name that contains the first syllables “No” and “Sin”.
We were, afterall, invited to Sin with perfection… and that link seems to coincidental where the biblical reference seems a bit of a reach to me
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@thegilded Yeah, I am also in the same camp as you… since the earlier comment of “Now, let’s talk about your heart” would indicate (at least, to me), there is something much more intimate and insidious in store than fire and brimstone.
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@bcbishop Absolutely. The first thing I saw when I looked at his site was that he was doing a LaVey/Satanism thing (but definitely not the Temple variety). Wouldst thou like to live deliciously?
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@russell I agree. I think it’s possible for all these biblical names/images/etc. to evoke conversations about the devil without us expecting to actually meet some 8-foot-tall demon in person. People see the devil in inanimate objects or even sexuality itself all the time. The point is that there is SOMETHING about this guy that we all automatically don’t (and shouldn’t) trust. Call it what you want to call it. None of us should think that Noah is the “good guy” in this narrative.
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@lilmsfancpants It’s funny, I grew up in the deep, deep south but raised in a home without a specific religion. I have witnessed some pretty odd behavior “in the name of God.”
Yes, I have seen people “find” the devil to inhabit everything from their car to actual people. Sexuality wasn’t a biological urge, it was the voice of Satan himself whispering in your ear… luring you toward sin.
So, yeah, I here ya… evil comes in many packages. Personally, I believe how we interpret evil depends on what we are made of… not the object we see evil lurking within. -
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I’ve been encouraged to “update” this thread and so I am.
In case I haven’t been clear, I think we need to seriously revisit this theory.
Noah = Lucifer. Maybe not directly, but in the same way that the island in LOST = purgatory (and, like that theory, we thought of it first and it was discounted early on, only to turn out to be correct).
The evidence (not going back through this thread, just summing up my own thoughts right now):
1. This is Lust – what do you Lust after? The tagline is “sin with perfection.” We are being encouraged to sin.
2. Noah’s website, it was pointed out, is filled with language that alludes to satanism.
3. Noah’s name is “Sinclair.”
4. Noah is “already dead.”
5. The loser email states “Make no mistake though, this is not the last you will see or hear of Noah Sinclair as I guarantee our clients will be more than happy to take your money and power as they conquer all that surrounds you in the very near future.” Noah is giving people money and power, or whatever it is that they lust after. And he is having them take it from others (maybe he is building an army – I don’t know if the devil does this). The language, I have been told, is actually more American anti-Christ than actually biblical devil.
6. Noah is now bargaining. This is huge. This is what the devil does. He offered Julie something she wanted, but at a cost. Same with Buz (the price being walking away). And the Facebook page promises it will only get worse – the costs will get steeper.
7. Noah’s likely to start out sounding more “…like Marion Cotilliard calling to ask you for a favor,” to quote my husband who knows a lot about this. He will be deceptive and attractive and easy. He even seduced Lia a little. He will offer what you want in exchange for following him and it won’t sound so bad. You’ll want to give him a chance because hey, why not. He’s offering what you want – interactions – but these will likely come at a cost eventually.So, I just want us to keep that in mind. I am not a Christian, I’m not religious at all, I’m an atheist. I normally wouldn’t give a shit. Just keeping this in mind moving forward.
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@coryphella Yes, I’m thinking that there may be some sort of Faustian bargain coming. I find it very fitting that I am currently attempting to learn the Paganini Caprice No. 24 when the myth around Paganini, Liszt and many other musical virtuosos are that they sold their soul to the devil in exchange for their musical talent.
However, in reality, musicians have to sacrifice something else. Hours of time to practice, friendships, relationships, physical health, the dream of having a stable financial situation…
And I think that is a big part of Noah’s supposed ideology, of how much you are willing to sacrifice to get what you want. And some may perceive the results of said sacrifices as bargains with a devil, as it has been throughout history.
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@coryphella A pact with the devil (from my knowledge of Faustian bargains, albeit mainly from opera) gives you the instant reward but the devil will collect your soul in a certain number of years, presumably reducing your lifespan by the number of years of hard work it would have taken to reach your desire by natural means. Either way it is a sacrifice of time, it just depends on which you would rather give up.
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@weaslette1233 – yeah…my resource is my husband, who grew up with radical born-again Christians, so we’re talking new testament biblical stuff? Possibly completely different, possibly just…totally off? I just went to him today and showed him all the Noah stuff, including my loser email, and asked him to look at it from a biblical pov. (To which he replied, “”Are you useful to your wife?” Yes but only in VERY specific instances..”)
He says, “The new testament devil only bargains he doesn’t threaten or intimidate, he offers what you want in exchange for following him. The devil is powerful because he offers ease, he offers health, riches and power without effort.”
The “threaten or intimidate” part isn’t in line with @bryan’s experience though…I don’t think it necessarily has to be perfectly in line for it to be analogous.
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@coryphella Whereas being non-religious most of my knowledge comes from popular culture and classical music history classes. I think it does fit for Noah to threaten those who may not hold up their end of the bargain. Because there may be parallels between the devil pacts and Noah’s promises of success and power, but he is just a man. And as such the consequences of said bargains and not holding to them would be very different and much more material (e.g. blackmail) compared to the more metaphorical soul.
Although, thinking about it now….. How we are perceived on social media, our personas online could be equated to a soul. So if we let him, Noah could have the power to corrupt or ruin our “soul”. Does that make any sense?
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@weaslette1233 – Well, we don’t know if he is just a man – he said “I’m already dead, remember?” No idea what that means. The devil wasn’t “dead,” AFAIK. Again I know very little about religion and have to constantly ask others. So, it could be an analogy. The island in LOST isn’t LITERAL PURGATORY. We could be looking at something more supernatural. The OOA was disproven but we don’t know very much yet about the Clockmakers, Investors, the OSDM, or Noah for that matter.
But what I’m thinking is more that this “community” is the “soul” – or replace “community” with your friendship, relationship, marriage, whatever it is that Noah is going to threaten to tear apart with these bargains.
Everyone here wants interactions within the world of Lust. Noah is offering them. That, for now, seems to be the thing that we are “lusting” after. I wonder what else could be offered down the line.
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@coryphella I definitely prefer your theory of the “soul”. I’m not quite up to date with all we have on Noah so far so my conjecture is limited by that. Hopefully those going to the focus group will be able to give us a bit more insight.
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@coryphella @weaslette1233 What if the OSDM is more the Devil in this scenario and Noah the one who sold his soul/life/something to them? His line about “already being dead” ties in pretty neatly if he made some kind of contract with them for his wealth, power, and success. I’m not super up on the Devil in fiction, but in the big stories (The Inferno, Paradise Lost) he generally isn’t considered to be dead. Can even mix this theory with the Brendan one. He sells whatever to the OSDM while he’s Brendan and then becomes Noah Sinclair when he attains his power.
Maybe as part of the deal, he’s bringing people to his higher ups now. Perhaps to get them to take a similar deal.
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@kevin Yes, that does fit with the “already dead” quote! And it does make sense that Noah is the puppet, not the one pulling the strings (that being the ODSM). Or maybe a more accurate description is that he is a Trojan horse? Being accepted for what he appears to be (seen by all our speculation that he is the main “antagonist”, a metaphor for the devil, etc.) and gaining all our attention, dividing us. It is quite astounding to see how Noah has infiltrated this community, created conflict. And isn’t that the point of the Trojan horse? To obscure the real objective yet at the same time create an opportunity to infiltrate and succeed at their goals?
But what is the Brendan theory? I haven’t heard of that one.
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It’s possible that when Noah said he “was already dead”, he didn’t mean literally dead? He could have meant dead to morals, dead to society’s lame expectations, “dead” inside because of the crazy douche bag rich hedonistic lifestyle he’s already led and all the enemies he’s made? He’s now immune to feelings?
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