March 3, 2018 at 4:11 pm #29186MeganParticipant
“From the beginning Noah asked you to think for yourself and not follow anyone. Maybe it’s time to start doing that again.”
“Well, we’re waiting. (Long pause) We’re waiting.”
The key here is “from the beginning Noah asked you to think for yourself AND NOT FOLLOW ANYONE.” Yet ever since 2/15/2018 we have been presented with one path, one leader, and the implication has been that we are going to follow. I’m thinking of it now as a path that runs along the edge of a mountainside, with an abyss off to the left. We have no choice but to walk in single file behind the leader, right? There’s no other option. No one is coming to save us.
There is no System 5.
The ones who are left aren’t on the side of BOS.
Noah wants us to think for ourselves and save ourselves. He gave us the tools. He told us we were headed into the lion’s den – maybe that wasn’t the MSE. Maybe that was the NOW. This waiting period, this calm before the storm, this encroaching darkness. He’s not the only one who knew this was coming.
The Creators though, maybe they did leave us some hints. I went back over both the Haunting interview and the Creep Society podcast today and some things really stuck out.
“Everyone is getting a little too passive.”
Both interviews discuss this audience agency issue and how surprised the Creators were that people went along with what they were told to do, rather than push back. “Maybe guests were scared to push back, or maybe they did not even know they could push back.” In both they talk about how they had prepared scenes for what would happen when guests refused to do things, only to find that they never refused. And we discussed this for awhile on slack, about how we were scared to “break the game.” We didn’t want to mess it up. We didn’t want to stray from the path, because that’s not what THEY wanted us to do. Choose from the options given to you because that’s what they’ve planned for. Except…they said they’d planned for others. There were scenes written that were never performed. And they’ve repeatedly – REPEATEDLY – asked us to trust them.
Something happened on my first time through Ascension that I do not believe had been anticipated. I was the sacrifice at the end and the other audience members in my group tried to “save” me. If I recall correctly this took people by surprise, and changes were made because shit was learned. In the last year of doing this, they have certainly figured out that we are not scripted actors. We can and SHOULD do things that aren’t anticipated, and they will be ready to respond. Trust them that they are expecting people to stray from the path.
I think they want us to.
Some people have expressed frustration at how things have been since part 2 began. Guys, they KNOW how a lot of us feel about BOS. I honestly don’t for one second believe that this was EVER intended to get 100% of us on the BOS train, all following happily along behind Morgan. We are supposed to be angry. We are supposed to be divided. We are supposed to be questioning. We are DOING what we are supposed to be doing. A and Morgan might tell you otherwise and they’re the only “characters” we have at the moment but so what? Does that mean we have to listen? Two interviews given during the break about how people don’t push back enough, and then we’re placed in a situation that screams for push back. On top of that, Cristen gets a call from Noah – she believes it was Noah and so I do as well. Noah tells us, point blank, that it’s time to stop following and start thinking for ourselves. Stop following Morgan. Stop following groups. Stop following the BOS. Stop following the path along the mountainside. That’s the path of least resistance and Noah has opinions on that.
They are waiting for us to do this and they are not going to do ANYTHING until we do. It’s our move. Stop being passive.
Where else can we go? There’s an abyss. We could jump. Yeah we totally risk not knowing what happens at the bottom. We could be eliminated from the “game” entirely. No more interactions at all. Ever. Maybe I’m completely wrong. I do overanalyze and overthink. We have no proof (beyond what some of us believe because of reasons) that Cecilia, Noah, Mason, et al are returning. Maybe we really have been abandoned and this is it. Noah didn’t identify himself in that call so maybe we don’t trust it.
Or maybe we shut Slack off and think through this ourselves.
In the Creep Society podcast they said “Megan is responsible for her own fate in this. Bryan Bishop, some of the things that have happened to him, he is responsible for that” Same interview later: “It will require change from the users but I think in the very end it will be more dynamic, more engaging, and allow us to do more cool things.” Right away after the “break” we’re hit with a very different game. One path, one leader, one group. Seemingly no way out. But what if the change isn’t the change in the format of the game but a change in ourselves? WE have to change. We have to be less passive, less accepting, less following. More responsible for our own fate.
Some of us have already taken the leap into the abyss. No one is guaranteeing that anything is at the bottom at all. No one is providing any ladder or rope or flashlight or handrail. This is some stupid batshit crazy idea that I came up with and was inspired by Robert and I think Larry already took the leap anyway, and Kevin and Bryan came after me. Maybe we’ll just be a bunch of freethinking dead bodies at the bottom of a ravine. I could be just as wrong as everyone who’s been talking out of their ass in Slack. Ever since mid February those of us who aren’t ok with BOS have been all OMG THIS SUCKS HOW CAN THEY DO THIS and I’m thinking specifically of Larry’s posts but come on, they know us. They know how we feel. They said change is coming. They *love* making us uncomfortable and making us face things about *ourselves* that we don’t want to face. You really think the change that’s coming is in them? It’s not. It’s in us. The change has been inside us all along. They are forcing us to be uncomfortable so that WE are forced out of passivity. Stop waiting for the other options to open up. No one is coming to save us, they are waiting for us to save ourselves.
March 3, 2018 at 4:18 pm #29189Robert FullerParticipant
You fucking NAILED it, Megan!
March 3, 2018 at 4:22 pm #29190Cruel BrownParticipant
This rings true. The hard part is figuring out what action to take beyond loading Morgan off (which I am perfectly happy to keep doing for now).
March 3, 2018 at 5:09 pm #29191Kevin HsuParticipant
Welcome #TeamNotFollowing. It’s “I want you to be happy” day. I want you to be happy.
March 3, 2018 at 6:48 pm #29194Lawrence MeyersParticipant
I was this close to walking away. I had lost trust in The Experiences. And while goofing around online, in between porn, I came across the scene in LOTR (the non-porn version) where Gandalf returns and says “I’ve been sent back, until my task is done.”
I don’t know what that task is from a story standpoint. I know self-actualization is a lifetime journey one never fully completes. We find the Self, then evolve again. Out of the MSE came a step of completeness, yet in its place, something malignant grew. I almost became consumed by the complex of needing an enemy. I think I’ve shaken that off. But that this complex appeared at all was a herald of this new journey.
However, I don’t think any of us are jumping into the abyss. That quote from Nietzsche hit me (cuz it’s the only line I know): “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.”
I think @bcbishop is right. I think TPTB were so eager to dive into the unconscious that they failed to see who they made a deal with (The Big Bad) and in doing so awoke an ancient evil — an evil that a cult has co-opted for its purposes, and now controls them as well. They stared too long into the abyss and have been corrupted by their own monsters, or perhaps Clint has, and DLB is trying to subvert it. And now Clint’s thoughts manifest into material things and people because of the power the abyss has placed inside him, and the evil grows.
An analogy came up in analysis in talking about the Balrog and Gandalf (yes, this is why I have the best analyst ever cuz we talk about LOTR and Star Wars and Harry Potter). Moria represents the dark journey through the psyche, and the Fellowship has instinctual fear of this journey because of the risk of death. Jung would say it represents the hazard of disintegration of the psyche. And in fact, he talks about this in his book PSYCHOLOGY AND ALCHEMY (!).
The Balrog is an ancient primal collective complex, residing deep in the unconscious, ready to destroy us. Gandalf tries to order it away (“Go back to the SHADOW”), but instead falls into the abyss and does battle with it, passes through fire, and in defeating it, the fire cleanses him and he becomes whole — transcendent — Gandalf the White. The Self. The cleansing fire is also in Jung’s book and as we know, an alchemical symbol.
I submit that DLB and CS did not defeat the proverbial Balrog. They fell into the abyss. Clint appears to have been consumed. DLB is apparently hanging on to the cliff, saying, “Fly, you fools!” (“Walk away, Bryan”).
We are The Fellowship. We stand on the crumbled Bridge of Khazad-Dun. Do we fly and continue our journey, or await what comes next in Moria?
WE FLY. To the light. We mourn the passing of Clint and Darren, our wizards. Now we think for ourselves, and let the BoS orcs chatter and squeal and remain in the darkness. We have a difficult journey ahead. The question is whether Noah is Elrond…or Saruman. Or is he Theoden, the good and wise king diseased by Saruman who needs healing? Is he someone to align with? Perhaps. So far, he hasn’t actually steered us wrong. And I buy into his messaging.
SO — I propose a gathering of our Fellowship.
Over the hill there in Lothlorien (NoHo?)
And think like the Free Folk to see what our individual paths might be.
And how to deal with the growing evil in the East.
AND MY AXE!
March 3, 2018 at 7:21 pm #29195Unseen PresenceParticipant
And I will go a completely different direction than you, @larry, but for the same reasons. I’ve just said it elsewhere and I’ll say it again here–I’m thrilled that people are starting to re-think past placements and stand forth.
As to where we go once we leap, there are multiple options. Some of them may not bear fruit immediately–but I can tell you that I’ve been taking every step I can think of to find where the Order went.
Every single step I can think of–constantly. Because I’m not joking when I say that I want to walk directly into their -real- spaces and see what they’re doing for myself.
Perhaps that’s where the phone calls about illumination came from–a response to that journey. If so, SEND MORE. Bring it on. Open the door. If you can TRULY illuminate me in some fashion, you had better believe I’ll talk about it.
Or maybe they’re worried that they’d have to hit me an the NDA, order me to be silent and give me some fiction somewhere to tell people–and I’d instantly tell the truth instead and out them. Honestly? I don’t know what I’d do in that situation, because if the story is good enough, if the narrative is strong enough, I might WANT to help. That’s the honest, 100% truth. They -could- sway me if I found the story interesting enough. And even if I didn’t find it that interesting, I might well go along with it all anyway, to find the next step into the mysteries.
And I’m even aware that saying the above might immediately make me suspect forever here. I’m okay with that outcome if I have to be–because I’m done with ANYTHING other than exactly how I feel and think and taking EXACTLY the steps I feel I should. And right now, those steps are walking RIGHT INTO the Order’s front doors if they open to me.
Perhaps they’re completely silent for the time being, in which case I will keep searching. After all, that’s been my journey in life already–to seek out a REAL moment beyond the normal in a world full of people who claim to have such, when I have not. Maybe that will never be part of the Order–then nothing has changed. I’ll be disappointed to see another failure; then I will keep moving.
Perhaps they’re afraid to let me in, because they’re as much of a sham and fraud (or perhaps simply not able to show me anything real) as everything else I’ve tried. In which case, I will eventually see that truth. And like any other, I’ll talk about it.
Does that make me as foolish as some believe the Creators to be? Possibly. It’s a 50-50 chance, by definition. Does it make me ‘bad’? Perhaps–I’m still standing here and saying what I will do after some here have legitimately been hurt emotionally by what’s happened recently.
But if the goal is EMOTIONAL TRUTH, then that’s mine. I do not have the history that makes me have a strong reaction to those so far hurt. There are others around here that I have already built enough of a connection with that I -would- feel it. Maybe even one or two that could be used to pull me in a direction, as has clearly been done to others before me.
But that isn’t where I am now. I cannot pretend sadness when I am not sad. I can empathize on a personal level with those who DO feel it and wish that they did not. I can recognize that what has happened to them–if true–is problematic at best and criminally evil at worst.
But -my- existence requires proof. It always has. I never -negate- someone else’s story, because I cannot be them and cannot be certain (unless I was there) what actually occurred. But that is also my point–if I am there, I -can be-. I can see it with my own eyes. I can hear it with my own ears.
And if it is something intangible, I will know.
That is my journey. My path. My goal.
Bring it on, either side or no side, if you can help me with it.
March 3, 2018 at 7:28 pm #29196Lawrence MeyersParticipant
@unseenpresence I get it. But consider this: there is no Order. There is no HQ. There is no place they are.
The Balrog lived in Moria, but that wasn’t where it was born.
You’re a sometimes-academic. Think of it as Eisenstein.
Thesis – Antithesis – Synthesis.
TPTB want to do immersive theatre (thesis)
They find investors (antithesis)
Tension is born (synthesis)
Everything that grew out of TPTB’s minds was given shape and form. Now it has been manifested and acts freely.
March 3, 2018 at 7:49 pm #29198Unseen PresenceParticipant
I’ve considered the idea.
As I said, I may search for this and it may not be there in any functional way.
But I am not as certain as you are, because I -choose- to remain a Schrodinger’s cat for the time being. I am neither a believer nor a disbeliever. I am able to move in whatever direction I choose, because I -choose- to allow for the possibility that the Order IS there.
Perhaps they are the investors after all.
Perhaps the Creators simply generated something that is now a beast of its own, rampaging through our emotional psyches and doing whatever damage it does until we -all- finally walk away from it.
It may be all of these, or none. That’s why I say, IF the Order exists, open the damn door and show me.
My journey will be seeking either way. They have the potential (if they are there) to win a BIG convert if they can show me -anything- I cannot and do not expect.
For now, I -choose- to leave that possibility as valid. Because after all, as I have said before, only Catholics get possessed.
March 3, 2018 at 8:44 pm #29200MeganParticipant
March 3, 2018 at 8:54 pm #29202
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