9/29 Phone Call

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This topic has 36 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 10 months ago by Megan.

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    • #25411
       Brad Ruwe
      Participant

      I’m finishing getting ready for work to head out the door, and phone starts ringing “RESTRICTED”. Oh boy, here we go.

      I’ll note that as I was running around getting ready, on top of groggy from a looong and tiring night at Dark Harbor last night, my brain may not have all been there. I’ve gotten most of the important details but some things may be off slightly. No matter, the general gist of the call is all here.

      I pick up and it’s a female voice. At first I thought it was Michelle, but I’m fairly certain now it was Sabrina. Could also have been Sarah Sinclair though. I was not of right mind enough to ask clarification.

      “Repercussions. *brief pause* Do you think that actions have consequences?”

      “Of course.”

      “Do you think that you are exempt from those consequences?”

      “No I don’t, everyone has to deal with the result of their actions.”

      “Then why didn’t you think of those when you posted on the forums about ‘The One’?”

      “It wasn’t just me, we all decided on that, I even wanted something different.”

      “That’s what everyone always says, that it was someone else, everyone else.”

      The rest I’m not 100% certain on specifics. She talked about I wasn’t thinking about the people that would be affected by that decision. Mentioned that everything comes back around (more ouroboros imagery) and that all of us will be there when it happens.

      So I’m guessing I’m pretty high up on OSDM’s shit list right about now… though I guess that means good call on those who voted The One. Sounds like they indeed are dealing with a shit show right now and are blaming me (and I assume Morgan, Stacey, and co) for it.

    • #25412
       Lia
      Participant

      What a great way to start your day, huh Brad? I think this is the first time in my life where I know that I’m in trouble because I did something wrong, but I 100% don’t feel bad about it at all.

      …yet!

    • #25413
       Kevin
      Participant

      That does sound like the calls Sabrina made regarding Joyce and assigning blame, but in each of those she clearly identified herself.

      It’s interesting that they seem to be dealing with some shit, but the FB post went up as normal this morning. Unless as @daela speculated in that thread that MyChild or BOS is currently in control of that account.

    • #25414
       Kyle Bown
      Participant

      Again, that is assuming that BOS and MyChild aren’t part of OSDM themselves. The fact that we’re still sitting around speculating what MyChild actually did, and that BOS hasn’t seen fit to tell us anything of substance, makes me concerned for their motives.

      • #25416
         Chelsea
        Participant

        The history of MyChild alone is enough to make me wonder. We have a system that was hacked and taken over, but what if it wasn’t completely, or at all. MyChild still smells like complete fish to me. I just don’t buy it.

    • #25421
       Brad Ruwe
      Participant

      Thinking more about my call, taking responsibility for one’s actions is something I put a lot of emphasis on in my life. I always laugh when people cry “FREE SPEECH!” when they get fired for saying absolutely horrific things. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from dealing with the consequences of your actions. So when Sabrina(?) was talking about consequences and dealing with repercussions I was in total agreement with her. And I do accept that my actions with facilitating that vote that led to the MyChild decision will absolutely have consequences I’ll have to deal with. But you know what? I believe in what Morgan and the BOS is fighting for. And if shit hits the fan because I organized that move against the OSDM, I’m ready to deal with whatever happens in response.

      (Famous last words?)

    • #25425
       Addison
      Participant

      While yes, it was a community discussion and decision.. you were the one to post the topic. You rallied votes. you spearheaded the project.

      Yes, the responsibility is on all that voted, and all that stood by watching. But even though you weren’t the one to pull the trigger and you weren’t the sole operator in choosing a target, you procured the bullets and you loaded the gun.

      Taking the lead on this does shift a lot of responsibility onto you. Not all, but would you be in this predicament if not for your actions? Would we as a community be in this position? Lots of “what if’s” for sure, as with all consequential matters.. but just like many hold Morgan largely responsible for BOS antics, you are responsible to some end here.

    • #25426
       Bryan Bishop
      Participant

      One of the things that was impressed upon some of us last year was that visiting the OOA compound had unintended consequences; that return visits were keeping handlers and actors trapped there.

      Basically, it emphasized the idea that the actions we took, no matter how noble, could have horrifying ramifications that we hadn’t even considered. It sounds like this call is striking a very similar tone to that.

      The truth is, nobody here that voted had any idea of what was going to happen, or whom might be hurt in the process. Could innocents be harmed? Possibly. Could some of the community be harmed? Also possible. But that didn’t stop most people from jumping on that MyChild vote.

      Nobody here had any idea of what was going to happen, and if I’m going to be brutally frank, trust in Morgan actually doesn’t matter, either. Because Morgan wasn’t the one pulling this particular trigger. It was Stacey Erikson and her (alleged) AI creation.

      In my opinion, that behavior was reckless. Even if MyChild is legit, I wouldn’t trust it any more than I trust Google to do the right thing with all of the treasure troves of data it has stored, because I cannot know its true motives. The only thing to do with something like MyChild is to trust it out of faith, or not. But blind faith is a weakness to be exploited, and it appears that’s exactly what has happened.

      For the record, I don’t expect this to be a popular opinion, and I doubt most of the community will agree with me here. That’s fine, and all criticism is welcome. We’re all on our own _paths here. But I sincerely hope the actions taken on these boards haven’t hurt the actors, creators, or community members we’ve all gotten to know here. If something did happen as a result of that vote, that blood isn’t solely on your hands, @nothenrygale. It’s on the hands of everyone that voted.

    • #25427
       Brad Ruwe
      Participant

      Absolutely. Again, I recognize my actions have consequences not only on myself but also those around me. Some times people fuck up. I know I’ve done that in my life before. It’s not a fun feeling, but you need to do what you think is the right move in that situation.

      I stand by the goals of the BOS. I want to see an end to good people being hurt and abused. I know it’s never going to go away completely and it’s foolish to think it can, but if I can help to put things in motion to at least cut down on their ability to keep pulling that shit, then I’ll do so.

      You’re right, I facilitated the MyChild move. But I did so by listening to everyone else, including those I didn’t agree with. Morgan came to me to give him the final votes. I could’ve told him The One got the most votes but that I didn’t agree with that decision. I could’ve tried to convince him to go a different route. I chose to respect The One and go with the overall consensus decision. There’s responsibility to go around, but I do recognize the part I played in it.

      Plus, we still don’t entirely know what MyChild did exactly. It may have resulted in exactly what BOS was hoping for. If OSDM is pissed at me, it’s not the first time someone has been mad at me for doing what I felt was the right move.

      • #25428
         Blondie
        Participant

        I stand by you Brad. I got your back ?

    • #25429
       Blondie
      Participant

      Funny… I don’t remember any of this being discussed during the voting process. People abstained, sure. But maybe standing against the vote would have been more useful (and much braver) when it could have made a difference, rather than sitting in judgement and pointing fingers after the fact.

      • #25431
         Bryan Bishop
        Participant
      • #25432
         Blondie
        Participant

        @bcbishop Exactly my point. You guys could have stood your ground. You acquiesed. If I had thought it was a bad idea, you can be damn sure I would have been screaming until my lungs gave out, not “I’m abstaining, laters…”

      • #25436
         Addison
        Participant

        @blondie, I love you, but how would you suggest stopping an angry mob via the internet, using the tools our our disposal? This was going to happen one way or another, and put OSDM’s focus on The One (including those within that group that aren’t BOS, or didn’t vote). What good would it have done to have also asked BOS or the otherwise anti-OSDM affiliated to also focus the negativity on us?

    • #25430
       Violet
      Participant

      @bcbishop I agree completely. That’s why I chose to abstain from voting at all. Whatever was decided, we had no idea what MyChild would DO with that decision. I trust us, as a community, INFINITELY more than I trust some creepy AI (TEAM SARAH CONNOR FOREVER) we really know almost nothing about.

      There will absolutely be consequences, whether those consequences are somehow beneficial or harmful remains to be seen.

    • #25433
       Christine
      Participant

      I was actually thinking about the vote this morning. I’ve been playing catch up the last couple days so I missed that completely. And started wondering why we should trust MyChild. There’s no telling who is actually controlling it. That being said when I initially read about the vote I thought I would have voted the same way. So what’s happened has happened and now is the time to deal with the consequences. There was definitely no way to know what was going to happen.

      • #25441
         Christine
        Participant

        Just to clarify I meant to say I would have voted the one

    • #25434
       Addison
      Participant

      Nobody knew what was going to come from MyChild, yes. We all knew that no matter the outcome, things would be changed forever. It was a drastic move.

      I see your point @blondie. By not voting, but also not actively taking measures to stop the voting from happening, there is some responsibility. Responsibility from not taking action. Sure. However – it’s unfair to say that it’s an equal burden here. If anyone was to stand up directly to an energized community that wants to take action, they’d be run out of town. The only winning move was not to play and all that jazz.

      We’re all effected by this fallout, regardless of if we voted or not, or affiliation, or anything. We’re all still The One. And while it wasn’t super duper cool for Brad to be called out like this, it’s not like ProbablySabrina was incorrect.

      • #25438
         Blondie
        Participant

        @addisonborn I take full responsibility for my part, my vote, whatever. By turning it around, I’m just trying to highlight that the blame game within the community isn’t helpful and is probably completely intentional on their part. But then I guess pro-OSDMers would be down with that, hence the finger pointing. It’s dumb. What’s done is done. Let’s see what plays out. This isn’t over by a long shot.

    • #25435
       Megan
      Participant

      It’s also possible that Brad being called out is symbolic – sure, he may bear the brunt of that responsibility, but the intention is that it’s for everyone that voted.

    • #25437
       Chelsea
      Participant

      ProbablySabrina


      @addisonborn
      , this just made me snort.


      @blondie
      , that’s a good point. But we all know what happens when the unpopular opinion is presented. It can definitely be intimidating. I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to step into that hornet’s nest.

      No matter what happens next, some people will be elated, some will be upset, and some will chuckle and do the “well fuck” dance. But like Addison said, we are all going to be dealing with it together regardless of who is responsible.

    • #25439
       Violet
      Participant

      Troofax. We’re all in this together, whether we like it or not.

    • #25440
       Brad Ruwe
      Participant

      Very much so. ProbablySabrina took her anger at the move out on me because yes, I spearheaded the vote from the community side of things. But when the shit hits the fan, we had a full 24 hours to all state our case. I was counting “silence” in the vote of those who thought we shouldn’t do anything with MyChild. It came in 3rd behind The One and Truth. Rather than just abstain from the vote, if you truly thought we shouldn’t trust MyChild you should’ve voted for silence. The One had a pretty big lead on it, but if enough of the community thought we shouldn’t trust it I’d have told Morgan that when the time came. Point fingers all you want, but the time to actually have done something came and went. The choice was made. Time to own up to our decision.

      • #25442
         Blondie
        Participant

        @nothenrygale THIS! This is what I was trying to say (albeit less eloquently as brain is broken by life stuff) *high five*

      • #25443
         Bryan Bishop
        Participant

        @nothenrygale Totally respect your and @blondie’s position on this, but we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree. In my mind, voting “Silence” would still have been participating in, and therefore condoning, the MyChild / Resistance / BOS action. I was never on board with it, and think I’ve made my positions with regard to OSDM quite clear over the past few months. “Should we not do what this alleged AI is asking?” was not a conversation the community was interested in, for reasons I totally get, so the only option from my perspective — and @addisonborn already said this with the perfect movie reference — was to publicly abstain as a form of protest. Hopefully it made some other people feel that abstaining was an option for them, too. Our paths are our own.

        But you’re definitely right: We’re all going to have to live with the ramifications of our decisions, whatever they may be.

      • #25444
         Brad Ruwe
        Participant

        That’s exactly what a vote of silence would have been though @bcbishop. This was how I described a vote of silence on the forum post:

        SILENCE: Do nothing, do not feed any vulnerability into MyChild.

        I made sure to include an option for people like yourself. Clearly “Should we not do what this alleged AI is asking?” WAS a conversation the community was interested in since it came up in discussion and even brought in votes. Again, if you were so against going with MyChild, you were given a chance to make your opinion heard and you chose to do nothing with it.

      • #25445
         Bryan Bishop
        Participant

        @nothenrygale I did not vote because I did not believe in your mission or the interaction with MyChild in the first place. And I sure as hell wasn’t going to be roped into playing your reindeer games just because you included an option to say “I don’t believe in this but imma support it anyway.” Do you truly not understand the difference?

        Come at me all you like, but I’ll sleep just fine tonight. You’re the one that took reckless action without having any concept of what the fallout would be. Without asking questions. Hopefully, nothing bad happened to any innocents or people we care about. I’m sure that’s what we are all hoping. But don’t try to preemptively deflect your own guilt because you were first in line to grab the pitchforks.

    • #25446
       Brad Ruwe
      Participant

      I don’t entirely follow how voting to not use MyChild equates to saying you believe in it and support it. It’s literally going “Let’s not do this”. But whatever.

    • #25447
       Kevin
      Participant

      I think this

      It’s also possible that Brad being called out is symbolic – sure, he may bear the brunt of that responsibility, but the intention is that it’s for everyone that voted.

      and this

      Mentioned that everything comes back around (more ouroboros imagery) and that all of us will be there when it happens.

      are key to each other.

      The mention that all of us will be there does indicate that everyone is being held responsible in some way, shape, or form. And honestly, I have a sneaking suspicion that the OSDM may not care whether people voted or didn’t vote.

      As for where or what exactly this is, my best guess is the MSE. Unless the OSDM has something else dialed up to coincide with the moon or their plans between now and then.

    • #25448
       Megan
      Participant

      @nothenrygale – I am with @bcbishop on this.

      Let’s say that you included the abstainers in the “silence” votes, and because of that, silence won over “the one.”
      If you had NOT included the abstainers, “the one” would have won because abstaining simply didn’t count at all.

      By entering “silence,” you guessed wrong.

    • #25449
       Robert Fuller
      Participant

      I’m with Bryan, as well. Reading the “Silence” definition now, I can see what you mean, @nothenrygale. But at the time of voting, it seemed ambiguous and still felt like a vote against the OSDM, which put the abstainers off. It was too much like a one-party election.

    • #25450
       Brad Ruwe
      Participant

      @remrelganaps I feel ya, but can you see why some BOS people might be put off by that thinking? The vote was open to all, and an option for “don’t do any input” was included as a valid, counted option. Instead of actually looking at the voting options and discussing it with BOS members and getting that clarification (though I explicitly stated what a vote of “silence” meant in the initial post), people brushed it off and instead decided to take some sort of weird “told you so” stance instead of actually trying to work to make a difference. I was listening to all voices; Pro-OSDM, BOS, those in-between. Not my fault some people didn’t pay attention to the ballot options.

      Though this also seems like a lot of pre-judgement for something we don’t know the full results of yet. As far as I can tell, all MyChild has done is corrupted / erased the data the OSDM had on all of us. I feel like that’s far from something that needs “blame” pushed onto a group. OSDM is (predictably) pissed to have lost all that data, which was bound to happen considering what BOS is aiming for.

      • #25453
         Robert Fuller
        Participant

        @nothenrygale But the way the vote was worded, it was billed as a vote to determine the OSDM’s greatest vulnerability, rather than a vote to decide what we as a group should do. “Silence” was listed along with all of the vulnerabilities, so that was how my literal brain interpreted it (i.e. if we remain silent, that’s a blow against the OSDM). But understand, I’m not trying to push blame onto anyone. Chalk it up to a lapse in communication, and let’s move on from here.

    • #25451
       Megan
      Participant

      I also read “silence” as a vote AGAINST them, after the fact. I wanted to take my vote back and abstain. They were two different things to me. Entering “silence” into MyChild is different from not entering anything at all.

      Regardless, it’s done, and doesn’t matter at this point – even if we had managed to abstain the result would have turned out the same. Should this issue happen again in the future we’ll be much clearer about it all around. The fact is that some people didn’t agree with using MyChild at all, didn’t want the OSDM taken down. We know that now.

      • This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by Megan.
    • #25454
       Lawrence Meyers
      Participant

      I should be repenting for my many sins, but instead…I’m engaged in LUST.

      I echo what @bcbishop offers and a Surrealist painting gives context.

      MyChild seemed like poking the tiger. Tactical move w/o strategic context. The idea of The One seems more important than initiating a fight.

      “Ideas are more important than battles”. Sumner was a Radical Republican who vigorously fought to free the slaves, and this quote is about Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address, that the speech — the idea for which the Union fought — was more important than either the battle or the war itself. The painting, Magritte’s “The Lovers” — has many interpretations but within the context of the quote — Magritte says ““My painting evoke mystery and one asks oneself ‘What does it mean?’ It does not mean anything, because mystery means nothing either, it is unknowable.” It is the idea of mystery itself, the work itself that matters, not the battle over what it means.

    • #25455
       Twan Intarathuch
      Participant

      I’m with you @nothenrygale

      Bring on the consequences…

      One of the things I’m keenly aware of is that we really don’t know much about what’s happening. Hindsight is 20/20 and fear is fucking contagious. @nothenrygale took the reigns, made a decision and the consequences that will happen will affect us all.

      That’s fucking awesome. Isn’t that what we want? Some fucking agency.

      Go get it Brad!

    • #25456
       Megan
      Participant

      Isn’t that what we want? Some fucking agency.

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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