July 30, 2017 at 9:07 am #20931
I was up really late last night and frankly am still waking up as I type this, but I abruptly shot up out of a deep sleep just a little bit ago by my phone ringing. NO CALLER ID. I’m thinking WHAT DAY IS IT WHAT TIME IS IT? WHERE AM I? WHATS GOING ON? AM I AWAKE? Anyways I answer it and it’s good old Horace on the other line…
Horace: Hannah? Are you sleeping?
Me: Ummmm yes I was haha
Horace: Do you know who this is?
Me: Ummmm… (Still waking up and not processing who’s voice this is)
Horace: This is Horace
Me: Oh… hey Horace…
Horace: I need something from you and you of all people seem to be in a position to answer it for me, are you ready? Take your time…
Me: (frantically trying to get my quicktime to record so I don’t forget this conversation) Yes I am ready
Horace: If your entire life was predetermined for you, if you had very little choice of where you would end up in your life and if all of your beliefs were predetermined and molded for you, would you still believe your life had purpose or that your actions on any single day meant anything at all?
Me: (Trying to get my brain to function) Umm… I would to an extent but I don’t think I would have as much faith in it as I would if it was not…
Horace: I see… And this is my question: Why would you care? Isn’t it just easier this way? I’m not just talking about my son Hannah. I’m talking about you, all of you. It would be much easier if you would all realize that your actions simply don’t matter. You have NO POWER AND YOU NEVER WILL. Why would anyone want the burden of choice and responsibility anyways when you can enjoy your television? We’ve made it almost as good as the movies. Why even leave the house? Enjoy all of your distractions and your delicious high fructose corn syrup. Stop and just give into the sweet embrace of our arms.
Good morning to you too Horace. Guess I’m up! I know he referred to us and not just Noah, but this also feels like a bit of a power trip. Sending a message that we, as well as Noah, have no power regardless of our choices and actions. And here we are again with a reference to something sweet being placed before us that is most likely filled with poison.July 30, 2017 at 9:09 am #20932
Also, why was I singled out for this?July 30, 2017 at 9:24 am #20933CandaceParticipant
I am awake due to all the slack notifications going off by my face at 8:30. But anyway, maybe it’s because you know how to relay messages quickly and accurately lol. Other than that, who knows why anyone ever gets singled out.
As for his message, I definitely understand what he’s trying to say but the fact is that no one of our lives is predetermined like he implied, therefore the choices we make everyday do matter! We are not robots; we have free will. And trust me I have done plenty of nothing like he suggests. I have done plenty of indulging myself in binge watching tv and eating tons of junk food but what I have learned from doing that in excess is that there are negative consequences from too much of anything. My health isn’t where I’d like it to be due to all the shit I’ve put into my body over the years and the more I sit in front of the TV the more I turn into this blob of nothing…I accomplish nothing with my day and I made no progress and there was really no purpose to my day. One day of binge watching and junk food is a great vacation but to do that everyday leaves no impact on myself or the world around me. That’s when I start to feel depressed and worthless, like I’m a waste of space. So Horace, that is why I leave the house.
July 30, 2017 at 9:27 am #20935
- This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Candace.
OK so this is very much like saying that they are the “They” behind everything in the world. The HFCS and the television and everything else. Everything that’s designed to keep us lazy, depressed, broke, fat, etc. I didn’t think of the OSDM as *literally* being the guys at Bohemian Grove.July 30, 2017 at 9:34 am #20936
@pandace88 there is the idea though that a lot of these things exist by design to keep us powerless. Whether that’s the small amounts of sugar added to EVERYTHING in order to keep our bodies addicted to it, or the way we are manipulated subtly by television and internet content into voting or buying preferences, how entire groups of people can be convinced to vote against their own interests.
There is a sort of US become AI feel to that.July 30, 2017 at 9:51 am #20937AddisonParticipant
The idea of “predetermined destiny” vs yesterday’s workshop turning into a discussion on choice and value and what can make a difference is an interesting contrast.
If lives are predetermined, then nothing done yesterday matters. The money spent on water or beer, or money handed out or destroyed, nothing makes a difference because what we did was never our choice to begins with.
And if our lives are predetermined, does the power promised by The System matter? These two outlooks seem completely at odds with one another.
What’s next from Horace? “Everything’s already decided, nothing matters in your life, join the OOA”
Unless this is an attempt at negging, to push us closer to the system.July 30, 2017 at 9:54 am #20938CristenParticipant
Regarding agency: We chose this experience. Heck, in the case of @bcbishop, @kevin and myself, we CHOSE to support Joyce and OSDM because we were choosing to support the experience they were providing.
Here’s what we know: We give them their power; they need us. We relinquish part of our agency to them to keep their clock wound, but we never forget we chose to be here. We chose to listen. Some choose to resist, that is their agency. Some choose to see where the rabbit hole goes, that is theirs.
Our actions don’t matter? Come on, Horace. You don’t really believe that. You learn more about us every day; data you crave though our varying decisions. And some of us are willing to give in to what you’re laying out for us. That’s a choice. Same as those who will rail against you. Show us what you’ve got, we’ll be listening.July 30, 2017 at 10:00 am #20939ChloeParticipant
I know I’ve done all of the the thing’s he’s said as well. I’ve binged watched aplenty, eaten more junk than I should, and can be the Queen of Procrastination. But, I still go to work every day, I still go shopping, do activities, just get out of the house when I can. I make my own choices on religion, politics, and life based on research and not just what one article or person tells me is right. Life just wouldn’t be interesting if I didn’t have any of these choices, or if I just let someone make them for me. I want to be independent and speak for myself on a lot of things. And I definitely don’t want someone like him making choices on my life for me. So no, Horace, I won’t accept the sweet embrace of your arms, I’ll stay in the embrace of the different sets of arms I’ve chosen for myself.July 30, 2017 at 10:04 am #20940
We always have agency.
It’s just that having agency, actually making use of it, requires effort. A lot of people don’t want to do the work that it takes to make a difference or get anywhere or be an active participant – they’d rather sit in sweet comfort in front of Netflix. It’s easier.
Horace is telling us to take the easy way out.
@maddyxxx is making us do the work, challenging us to do things we might not otherwise doJuly 30, 2017 at 10:13 am #20941Buz WallickModerator
I’m an individualist at heart so I could not disagree with this further.
Human beings have freedom to choose. That’s what makes every wrong deed wrong, and every good deed good. We chose to do it. No one forced our hand to go one way or another.
We do tend to get bogged down with the idea that we have no choice, that we’re shackled by our surrounding world. There is always a choice, just not always with the best options.
I’m sure in the coming weeks a lot of decisions will have to be made. The question is if we have the constitution to free ourselves of the shackles.July 30, 2017 at 10:30 am #20942KevinParticipant
This message seems to directly contrast with those of The System (“take what’s yours”) and what we were shown yesterday (“go make a difference”), so kind of weird coming from Horace. I’ve been assuming Horace has some control over The System, so this works in either two ways. Horace could be acknowledging that he thinks The System is bullshit and we have no choices. I think everyone here would disagree with that, we’ve all made choices as they relate to Noah and Sarah, iConfidant, Joyce, etc…
The other is that it is some kind of test. Will we make the choice to take what’s ours? He did ask why anyone would want to deal with choice.July 30, 2017 at 10:50 am #20943
This almost seems like a warning he is sending to @maddyxxx. Last we heard from Horace he was asking if we had seen or heard from his son. I know they are working together at the moment (or so it seems) but he knows his son is unpredictable. This also could be a hint towards our theory of Noah being the sacrifice and has known that is his destiny for quite some time. Horace is saying he doesn’t have a choice in the matter, but Noah is taking what is his: his life.
Either way, we all have a decision to make: are you going to submit to forfeiting your right to choice or are you going to grab choice by the balls and say “I’m taking what is mine”?
July 30, 2017 at 11:00 am #20945ChelseaParticipant
- This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Hannah Schenck.
These are the words of either a total jerk face, or a total jerk face who is just a little bit nervous. Hannah, what was your impression of his voice inflection? Could you tell if he was bored, irritated, entertained, etc?
Why after yesterday would Horace be suggesting that none of what we do matters? Is there a chance that he wasn’t in on yesterday’s events at all? @shankfx22 I agree that this almost doesn’t sound like a message to us. It wouldn’t be the first time we were put in the middle of their communication.July 30, 2017 at 11:15 am #20946
He seemed rather cool and collected but with a slight touch of arrogance and superciliousness dripping from his words. I pictured him sitting at his desk, leaned back in his chair with his feet on the desk, just telling me how it is and that I know nothing.July 30, 2017 at 11:28 am #20947Bryan BishopParticipant
I wonder if we might be taking this too literally – and thereby missing the forest for the trees.
If Horace is a global string puller, he probably has a bit more finesse than just randomly calling people and saying “Go be ignorant because nothing matters; you’ll be happier that way.”
This is a guy that was (at least partially) behind an elaborate production (Tension) that was designed to trick us. Pushing buttons to elicit reactions is his game. Not telling people to do something in a way that would pretty much ensure they never will.
If yesterday was about agency, then this call can be read as Horace pushing us further towards that – just with a different manipulation technique. Anybody even remotely self-aware is going to respond to what he said to @shankfx22 with a middle finger and a “Hell no, I control my own fate.” We’re all doing it right now. This pushes us to remain engaged, and to demonstrate that we can impact the world around us. It underscores the true lesson of yesterday, after other issues steered the conversation in a different direction.
Horace plays the long game. We should be thinking the same way.
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