March 22, 2017 at 10:26 pm #2954
March 22, 2017 at 10:37 pm #2956
this is fucked up.
March 22, 2017 at 10:39 pm #2957
March 22, 2017 at 10:40 pm #2958
Thanks for posting this.
March 22, 2017 at 10:40 pm #2959
March 22, 2017 at 10:41 pm #2960Andrew KaschParticipant
March 22, 2017 at 10:44 pm #2962SarahParticipant
March 22, 2017 at 10:48 pm #2963
Great recap! Thank you! Main points that seem to stand out (or ones that you emphasized) are that the prostitute is an “actress” (possibly posing as one to blackmail people). DLB is in trouble. DLB was in Panama (and holding his ticket in his hand). And that Noah is full of shit and/or blackmailing people so he can use them to recruit for his self-help business.
March 22, 2017 at 11:02 pm #2966
Very intense, @bcbishop, thank you for your strength in going through all that. I would definitely share your feelings about Noah in that moment if I were in your place. He stands you up twice, sets you up for this blackmail, has the audacity to bring your family into it, then tells you how you’re going to work for him. He’s shown you clearly how he feels about you– you’ve already demonstrated the courage to show him right back. You have certainly flexed your power as an “influencer” in telling us to what depths he’s capable of. Hopefully you’ll get the chance to make him regret it.
March 22, 2017 at 11:27 pm #2985
It’s interesting how Noah’s interaction with L seemed friendly as yours was hostile. He skipped negotiations and went straight to staging blackmail.
He couldn’t afford for you to turn him down, it seems.
March 22, 2017 at 11:31 pm #2989
Shiiiit this is bonkers.
March 23, 2017 at 12:02 am #3008
March 23, 2017 at 12:04 am #3009
Noah Sinclair is one crafty little asshole… I look forward to making his planning seem arcane.
March 23, 2017 at 12:10 am #3011
I am rescinding my Shadow theory. It is now apparent that everyone is actually a character in LORD OF THE RINGS.
@bryan is obviously Pippin.
The rest of us are hopeless little Hobbits from the Shire. We don’t stand a fucking chance unless one of you is that Frodo fellow.
I volunteer to be Bill the horse.
March 23, 2017 at 12:16 am #3012
March 23, 2017 at 12:36 am #3013
March 23, 2017 at 12:36 am #3014
@macbethinabathtub Frodo took on this burden reluctantly, yet you leap to the task? I find this development disquieting.
@immortalconqueror Unlike Narcissus, I have now backed away from the pond. Procrastination can be an unwieldy foe, pursuing one like the Dark Riders. It poisons the mind, tempting it to engage in apparent celebratory masturba….self-involvement. Fortunately, I am now safely ensconced within the borders of Lothlorien. A new draft is complete. Under the protection of My Lady, inspiration blossoms anew, and I am aware and present under Her guidance.
March 23, 2017 at 1:17 am #3023
March 23, 2017 at 2:04 am #3033
The night started as we’d described earlier. @lilmsfancpants and I were both told 8:30PM Downtown, only to get an email from Noah saying he was running late in meetings and would need to push until 9. But we both received different zip codes for our meeting location; mine was in Silver Lake. Shortly before 9PM, I got a call from a woman (same one that called me last week in Austin), who asked me if I found Mr. Sinclair “brash.” She told me that he doesn’t play by the same rules as the rest of us, which is why he’s so successful. “But don’t let his demeanor fool you, he’s taken great interest in you. We all believe he can help.” Who’s the “we”? What can he help with, exactly? It wasn’t clear, but I was provided with a nearby intersection and told to stand outside Silver Lake Alimentari Market in order to meet Noah.
This place was next door, which felt like such a Lust-ian in-joke that I had to take a picture:
While outside the market, a guy in a big jacket approached me and asked me for a dollar. When I told him I didn’t have any cash, he got angry, came in close and then handed me a key. “Olive Motel, Room 4. You’ve got 10 minutes.”
The motel was down the block, and when I got to the room the door wasn’t even locked. Inside a bunch of lingerie was strewn on the floor, a trashcan was overturned (inside was a used condom), and an iPad played music. The shower was on, and a woman called out that she was inside. I assumed I’d stepped into the middle of a room Noah had just stepped out of, and when I went into the restroom I found a painfully thin woman naked in the shower, makeup smeared across her face. Her name was Britney, and she asked me to get her a towel from the bed.
Back in the room, she told me how when she used to get a thrill from doing this sort of thing, but that over time even that had gone away. She was so sad and lost, frightened and beaten down, my heart went out to her. I asked her if she needed help escaping, and that this didn’t have to be her life. She said I had kind eyes, and asked me to just sit next to her on the bed, as that would make her feel safe.
I did, and she asked if we could just hold hands. I did, and that’s when things started to get weird. She said that she felt “he” was always watching — wherever and whenever she was, she was sure “he” could see her. I asked if she meant Noah, but she wouldn’t tell me who that “he” was. Then she leaned in close and whispered a secret: “When they stop believing you, that’s when you’ll know it’s begun.”
The phone by the bed rang, and when I picked it up it was Noah Sinclair. He told me to describe the woman’s body to him — I told him it was none of my business, which he found hilarious. Noah said he was sorry he would not be able to stop by (making it the second time he’s been a total no-show), he was sending something my way instead. I then got an email on my own phone: a picture of me on the bed with the prostitute. He said that he needed my help, because I was an “influencer” that could help get his message to certain audiences, and that if I didn’t… well, that he was sure my wife Miranda would love to see that picture.
(In case you’re wondering, this is where I started to get pissed. And not in a “I’m going to be angry now because that’s what this immersive theater scene is asking of me” kind of way. But in a “I am utterly, 100% present and this guy is messing with my family” kind of way. If I may step OOG for a moment, it was an incredible real-time realization.)
The “prostitute” broke character, revealing she was just an actress, the guy that handed me the key earlier burst into the room, and they demanded I get out. I’d been set up by Noah. I pocketed the phone, and said I wouldn’t leave until Noah showed up himself. Eventually it became clear nothing more was happening, and I left.
Once outside I called Noah back on the stolen phone; it was the same number we’ve all received in emails from Sarah, and it went straight to voicemail. Then the phone began ringing in my hand, and I saw a name I was not expecting: Darren Lynn Bousman.
“How did you get this phone?” he asked me, before stepping out of an SUV in the parking lot of the freaking hotel. “What am I doing here?” he asked me. (I was wondering the same thing.) The only way I can describe Darren was rattled and confused. Given all the shadow theories, I asked to see his OOA tattoo to make sure he wasn’t a Shadow Darren. Like in Austin, he accused Clint or I of fucking with him. Eventually, after saying we were officially “out of game,” he told me that he received an email from one of their accounts that told him to come to the hotel, where he’d been waiting for an hour. A guy had come up to him and shown him a picture taken in Panama, Darren said. The picture wasn’t anything bad, he claimed, but it clearly had him rattled. Somebody had been tracking him and tacking photos of him while he was in Panama.
I asked Darren what happened to him after the book signing event; he avoided the question and stepped away. Finally I told him that this was my family that was getting messed with, and he had to come clean. “OSDM, OOA, what is it?” I asked. “That’s all bullshit,” he said.
Darren then wanted to move to a different location to talk. I found a nearby bar, and we agreed to meet there. About 10 minutes later we convened. He said he’d talked to Clint, who as fine because he was in “fucking Kansas,” then asked me for the room key, the actress’ cellphone, and “the book.”
I hadn’t seen a book while in the room, and definitely didn’t take one. “You didn’t see a book on a scale?” he asked. I checked a photo I’d quickly taken of the room, but didn’t see a book anywhere. At the time, I didn’t see the scale either — but looking at the photo here on my monitor at home, the scale is plain as day. Whatever book Darren was looking for was missing from the room when I got there. And he was very agitated that I didn’t have it.
Darren then told me to keep my phone on, jumped on a call himself, and then ran to his car and I watched him drive away. Later, after getting back to my car, I received a final call from Noah Sinclair. “There are some things that are bigger than you, than Darren, than me,” he said. “But wasn’t it exciting? And I bet when you hear the other half of the evening you’ll realize what an integral part you are, and how great this is all going.”
“I hope you’ll tell the story knowing the only fear was ever inside your headd. I can’t wait to dive in deeper with you.” Then he hung up.
Processing this over the past few hours (and after listening to @lilmsfancpants’s recap), a few things come to mind.
-Obviously, Noah Sinclair isn’t an all-powerful force of charm and charisma if he needs to blackmail somebody to help hype him.
-At the same time, he certainly had done his research and knew that I would have felt for that young woman in the situation I found her, which led to the compromising photo.
-Noah Sinclair knows who Darren Bousman is. We got used to the lines being blurred quite a bit in Tension, but this seems to be another level. The creation knows the “creator,” and just as I suspected in Austin, other forces seem to be doing things outside of DLB’s control. Darren was quick to discard The OOA and OSDM as “bullshit,” but was that just another dodge? I’m not sure.
-At one point Darren referred to the prostitute in the room as “just an actress.” So, was the scene I walked into one that was staged by Darren Bousman, rather than Noah Sinclair? The throwaway comment certainly makes it seem like that was the case, but if that is true, then how do we account for Darren’s panic in the parking lot? Lies, or is there truth to the idea of a Shadow Darren (or a Fight Club-style split personality)?
-Clint Sears is still MIA, and it’s starting to be awfully suspicious. Darren claimed he had just talked to Clint, but moments later I called Clint, urgently warning him about Darren’s condition. As of this moment: still no response. The disappearance — or silence — of Clint Sears is of increasing concern.
-“The Book.” What was the mysterious book that Darren thought would be in the room, but seemed to have been removed before I ever arrived?
-Where do things go from here? I have absolutely no idea. But I do know that Noah Sinclair needs something from me, but thus far all I’ve seen from him is a website, empty promises, and an utterly non-existent cultural footprint. If he was one tenth as interesting or persuasive as he claims to be, he wouldn’t have needed to bring my wife into this (and frankly probably wouldn’t need my help in the first place). So I’ll believe in the almighty life-changing power of Noah when I see something beyond a parlor trick.
-Lastly, I did debate whether to share some of this stuff on the forums — and I certainly worried that the kind of accusations Noah was making could reflect poorly upon me. But then I remembered how tight-knit and close this community is, and how welcoming everyone has always been. As long as that stands true, the best way to combat lies and shenanigans from the Sinclairs is going to be pretty simple: tell the truth, and let sunlight and the community do the disinfecting.
March 23, 2017 at 1:48 pm #3200
@bcbishop, by any chance do you know what the other two objects on the table are (to the right of the mason jars)? You said the condom was in the trash, but there is a black thing and a glass knob? Also I wonder what were they weighing on the scale…. Must be important since DLB mentioned it?
March 23, 2017 at 2:12 am #3034
March 23, 2017 at 2:13 am #3035MasomomentParticipant
This is so crazy, thank you for posting.. i wish Noah would answer 🙁
March 23, 2017 at 2:56 am #3037
You know what jumps out of that motel room photo for me? THOSE NASTY ORANGE TIC TACS!! Noah’s calling card.
March 23, 2017 at 2:58 am #3038
Tremendous write-up, @bcbishop, so many great details. Thank you for your candor, especially with the more personal moments. Two thoughts:
1) An interesting dynamic continuing to form is the idea that Clint and Darren are not working together and in fact seem to be on very different pages. At least one of Clint’s online presences seems consistently worried about Darren’s well-being (we can ignore the @clint-sears and “Darren is fine” of it all for now) while Darren seems to think that Clint is messing with him in some way. What is causing all this miscommunication between these two? Is it schemers like Noah and Michelle trying to keep them separated and confused, and they are the victims of shadow misinformation as much as we are, or is one of them not being honest with the other or us in any capacity?
2) During your periscope, in my head I thought Darren might have been talking about a bathroom floor scale that would have been easy to miss if someone was trying to avoid an entirely nude woman in the shower. But seeing that picture now (an excellent job at having the presence of mind to take it), that tiny, breakable scale in a box is so specific and so out of place that it seems impossible someone would just forget to put an important book on there. I want to believe that this wasn’t a mistake. There was no way of predicting with any great certainty that you would have taken the actress’ cell phone and he asked for it with as much confidence as the key. So I want to believe that asking for the book is meant to suggest the importance of the ABSENCE of the book, rather than evidence of a miscommunication or oversight. @lilmsfancpants encountered a couple of books tonight that Noah kept with him but seemingly never referenced. Or maybe Darren’s just lost his copy of “Chronicles of the OOA.” Whatever it means, I hope this won’t be the last we hear of it.
March 23, 2017 at 3:03 am #3039
INCREDIBLE job spotting those, @pandace88! These were two very different meetings but they were both orchestrated by Noah. He’s shown us two distinct sides, ways of dealing with people of interest to him. But he clearly wants @lilmsfancpants and @bcbishop to find some connective tissue between them. Big or small, the connections must be there, and the tic tacs really hit that home.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Chris.
March 23, 2017 at 3:12 am #3042
Honestly @macbethinabathtub, I think you may have hit upon it.
The Tic-Tacs suggest Noah staged each scene. If he left the hotel to make his appointment with @lilmsfancpants, then it stands to reason that the book/books he had with him could be the ones Darren was referring to.
Have there been any further developments w/r/t which exact books he had with him?
March 23, 2017 at 3:16 am #3044
March 23, 2017 at 3:26 am #3045
I was definitely thinking one of Noah’s books could have been what DLB was referring to! I think we’re on to something.. I still can’t make out why Darren would be there all frazzled. What’s his angle in all this…hmm he got an email asking him to meet at the hotel (sorry did he say from who exactly? That part wasn’t clear) if it was from Noah, maybe Noah was trying to set up DLB just like he set u up @bcbishop. Maybe he actually did set him up before you and that’s why he was there for an hour already and how he knew the girl was an actress. Maybe Noah is blackmailing Darren like he’s attempting to blackmail you! Darren is definitely one hell of an influencer!!
March 23, 2017 at 4:48 am #3047
March 23, 2017 at 5:17 am #3050MarandaParticipant
It’s clear that the hotel setup was a trap. But, @bcbishop, what Noah said to you on the phone after you left the hotel makes it seem that it was just an elaborate play he set up just for you. Could it have been a test of some sort?
Regarding Darren, I think he definitely knows what happened to you in that hotel room, based on the items he asked you for. But he was expecting a book, and because you didn’t have it, that suggests that Noah is messing with the scenes in a way not OK’d by Darren. Darren is also always nearby whenever a live event happens, so it makes sense that he’d be outside the hotel, but if someone emailed their account and asked him to be there just to show him the Panama photo, I can see why he’d be rattled and confused.
March 23, 2017 at 5:28 am #3051AnonymousInactive
What a crazy night with such different tones between the experiences. Noah being all flirty and charismatic with Lia while at the same time putting Bryan in such a threatening situation.
Be safe you two.
March 23, 2017 at 6:44 am #3054KristinParticipant
Holy shit at all of this.
March 23, 2017 at 8:42 am #3068
@bcbishop thank you for posting and Periscoping all the info!
A couple things jump out at me – the picture taken of you (in real time?). Did you see any camera or anything that could have sent that to you, in an email, that quickly? Any chance to post the picture (obviously edit out the NSFW parts in respect to the hooktress)?
Last year, I kept talking about how Tom Barrow would always end up crashing events and to be at the right place and the right time EVERY TIME, he had to have had inside knowledge. This was proven at The End that he wasn’t who he said he was. Now…Darren coincidentally shows up at this seedy motel and just happens to catch you in the parking lot? How did he know? Was he tipped off? Is he being used as a puppet? Something strange is afoot at the Circle K…
March 23, 2017 at 8:46 am #3071NeilParticipant
What an awesome way to wake up. Between @Bcbishop and @lilmsfancpants you guys have started the story. We got a glimpse into the power and persuasion that Noah Sinclair can present. It is quite alarming to see how personal they can get. As for DLB, I am concerned. He is a friend. I have yet to hear from him since everything went down last week at book release. I have tried to contact him and Clint with no response. I am very concerned for him and everyone. Please be careful out there as this is not a game anymore, this has become real life.
March 23, 2017 at 8:55 am #3073
@mike There was a backpack (and a second iPad) against the wall facing the bed. That’s definitely where the picture came from. Judging from what I was sent, “Noah” had a FaceTime call running on some device in the room. Whomever was monitoring it and emailed me screencapped from their phone.
Darren’s story was that he’d been told to come to the hotel and wait, by a message sent from one of the Tension/LUST email accounts. It’s definitely super suspicious.
At the moment, it seems like there are two main options:
-He is lying, and “everything is fine”
-Somebody is staging things so that we can’t tell what’s real or not (and perhaps even wants us to believe Darren is lying).
March 23, 2017 at 9:01 am #3075
Interesting @bcbishop and thank you!
The Darren thing is weird….because he is getting tipped off somehow. That could go one of two ways
– someone is legitimately concerned and wants him to be aware to help
– someone is rubbing it in his face that they have control and they want him to see it first hand
Either way, someone is spilling non-public information to him.
March 23, 2017 at 9:07 am #3076
Given how freaked out Darren is about all of this and the “are you fucking with me?!” it appears on the surface that Darren legitimately has no clue what is going on right now. I feel like Darren has no clue what he has truly gotten himself into. Maybe he’s deeper down the rabbit hole than he even realizes.
March 23, 2017 at 9:14 am #3078
March 23, 2017 at 9:17 am #3079ChloeParticipant
@mike I’m leaning towards it being the OSDM or someone messing with him, mainly because of everything that happened at the book signing and how stressed and confused he seems to be about everything going on. OSDM, Noah, whoever is really doing all of this, want us and him to know that they are in control and can do and manipulate whatever and whomever they want.
(Side note: Just listened to the podcast this morning. YES on the sound, keep it!)
March 23, 2017 at 9:21 am #3080
@chloe – Very true! Another thing that’s in the back of my mind is Clint. Could he be setting Darren up somehow? He’s nice and safe all the way across the country. Whenever stuff has gone down with Darren, Clint is nowhere to be found. Makes me wonder about that.
Or maybe Clint is possibly being blackmailed like they tried to do with @bcbishop and in order to keep them quiet, he has to out info?
Ugh…not you too!!!
March 23, 2017 at 9:26 am #3081
March 23, 2017 at 9:31 am #3083
@bryan, the scale is an antique beam scale, one of the oldest types of scale. And when I googled antique beam scale the first thing that came up (I swear!) was a picture of an ancient Egyptian scale and how important they were in the after life:
THE HALL OF TRUTH
In The Egyptian Book of the Dead it is recorded that the soul would be lead before the god Osiris and recite the 42 negative confessions beginning with the prayer, “I have not learnt the things which are not” meaning that the soul strove in life to devote itself to matters of lasting importance rather than the trivial matters of everyday life. The 42 negative declarations which followed the opening prayer went to assure Osiris of the soul’s purity and ended, in fact, with the statement, “I am pure” repeated a number of times. It was not the soul’s claim to purity which would win over Osiris, however, but, instead, the weight of the soul’s heart.
The heart of the soul was handed over to Osiris who placed it on a great golden scale balanced against the white feather of Ma’at, the feather of truth, of harmony, on the other side. If the soul’s heart was lighter than the feather then the soul was freely admitted into the bliss of the Field of Reeds. Should the heart prove heavier, however, it was thrown to the floor of the Hall of Truth where it was devoured by Amenti (a god with the face of a crocodile, front of a leopard and the back of a rhinoceros) and the individual soul then ceased to exist. There was no hell for the ancient Egyptians; their fate worse than death was non-existence.
March 23, 2017 at 9:46 am #3091
Oh @sfire8 this part of your research is poignant:
“There was no hell for the ancient Egyptians; their fate worse than death was non-existence.”
Ties in well with the whole Tinkerbell effect, willing something into Reality idea, don’t you think? A far worse than death for Noah Sinclair would be for us to stop beloeveing in him; for him not to exist at all.
March 23, 2017 at 9:50 am #3092
March 23, 2017 at 9:51 am #3093ChloeParticipant
@mike ooo…I never thought about that. Two really good friends starting something out and as it becomes more successful one of them starts to maybe “lust” after more and becomes more corrupt.
You know, now that I think about it, you could change it…add some jingling chains with the whip XD
March 23, 2017 at 9:53 am #3094AnonymousInactive
Team Bryan! Noah can eat a bag of dicks.
March 23, 2017 at 9:55 am #3096RussellParticipant
@bcbishop… your comments on Darren’s reaction and his presence last night remind me a bit of Tom Barrow’s odd ability to show up unexpectedly at events. I know @mike also touched on this. It seems very odd he would be so “out of the loop” early on… unless a takeover of the reins has been in the works for a while.
- This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Russell.
March 23, 2017 at 9:59 am #3098
@bcbishop oh WOW your idea about the creations not needing the creator anymore, taking on lives of their own in the real world!! That’s dark and I love it!! That’s actually scary and it makes me happy. Makes me think of dolls coming to life or like someone said, puppets without strings!!
March 23, 2017 at 9:59 am #3099GrahamParticipant
March 23, 2017 at 10:06 am #3102
@sfire8 it all sounds reminiscent of that ridiculous self help book. What’s it called…The Secret? I think it was the idea of willing the things you want to be into existence though the power of positive energy. A great thought, if impractical.
And I also wonder if there’s anything to the quote that was on the Lust Instagram this morning, it’s from Revelation 3:8 but I’m no Bible scholar. Maybe @larry can help with contact for that?
Guess we’re all off to the library huh.
March 23, 2017 at 10:30 am #3112
@wanda102, yes! Totally, after a quick search on self help and quantum physics it seems like a lot of self help gurus use quantum mechanics in their practice, claiming that it allows us to alter reality with our minds alone.
Seems right on the money for Noah and why he would have those books.
March 23, 2017 at 10:31 am #3114
Wow. Just watched the Periscope. Intense.
I know it’s been mentioned before somewhere on this board. But this all started with the website being hijacked by spam, and us immediately jumping in to volunteer for Noah’s seminars and self-help crap.
Something you said stood out to me. That he mentioned how eager we all are to participate in an immersive experience. Seems like a great way to legitimately start a cult. Find people susceptible. Hijack an existing experience/story (Lust). Get someone on the inside (to hack the website’s code and give us a time) so that your pre-planned spam is taken as the beginning of the game. Instead of being the actual game, it’s Noah/Sarah with someone on the inside using Tension’s credibility to enrich themselves for whatever purpose they have. Darren is well aware his creation has been hijacked and he may be getting hit really hard from them. Brian, you got a blackmail picture, who knows what they have or are doing to Darren.
I haven’t been able to thoroughly keep up with all the speculation, so I apologize if this has all already been gamed out.
The idea of things I’ve created coming to life is both exhilarating and terrifying. “Got a secret, can you keep it?”
March 23, 2017 at 10:35 am #3115
March 23, 2017 at 10:43 am #3116
Darren’s creations have come to life and hijacked his show!
March 23, 2017 at 10:52 am #3118KevinParticipant
I was getting vibes of this near the end of Tension, but the recent Lust stuff, specifically with DLB has really got me thinking about Foucault’s Pendulum by Umberto Eco.
The book deals with three guys who create a conspiracy dealing with secret societies as something of a thought exercise. It starts out as a game for them, but they get deeper and deeper into it where they sort of start to believe it themselves. Eventually the line becomes so blurry that they’re not sure if the conspiracy is real and they discovered it or it was something they accidentally created. By the end, the secret society they created actually shows up and interacts with them. It’s unclear whether the society exists because they thought it up, if someone created the society because they thought it up, or if it’s always existed and they just shed some light on it.
This is obviously a vast oversimplification of the novel, but definitely seems to fit in with what’s been happening. Even some ties to the belief/creation theories that have been bouncing around. Not sure how helpful this actually is, but I thought it was kind of interesting, ha!
I’d definitely recommend the book, but it is dense, to say the least. You can check out Wikipedia for a (fairly dense) summary too.
March 23, 2017 at 11:07 am #3120
March 23, 2017 at 11:12 am #3123
March 23, 2017 at 11:19 am #3132
@mike Been thinking about this a lot. Brashness and presentation aside, I don’t think all of his ideas are necessarily terrible, so yesterday I didn’t really know how to feel about Noah Sinclair.
After last night, I think he’s full of shit. Nothing but hype. If he can show me more, I’m listening. But right now he’s just a two-bit con-man with a shitty web designer.
March 23, 2017 at 11:37 am #3140
March 23, 2017 at 11:42 am #3144
I find it so interesting that Noah is blackmailing Bryan to get himself followers. If he is such a large tycoon with money, influence and power, why is he trying to get someone to persuade us to join him? Which also, what does that mean?
March 23, 2017 at 3:51 pm #3254
I find it so interesting that Noah is blackmailing Bryan to get himself followers. If he is such a large tycoon with money, influence and power, why is he trying to get someone to persuade us to join him?
@darthzannah made a solid point here that’s been overlooked.
Noah, the richest cash cow in the building, needed to blackmail Bryan to be his unpaid billboard and seek out new followers? The guy that will soon give a seminar on his unbridled success needed to do this?
Perhaps lessons in how to hide a book will be included in a slightly more expensive VIP ticket, to cover his gas to his own event.
This is horse shit.
March 23, 2017 at 11:47 am #3148Christine BargerParticipant
I don’t understand what everybody has against orange tictacs. I happen to love orange tictacs.
And I don’t think it necessarily means he “staged the scene”, maybe he did maybe he didn’t…maybe somebody else eats orange tictacs or maybe they were trying to make it look like he was there. We don’t know.
Maybe Bryan is stretching the truth about the situation because he doesn’t want his wife to find out what he was doing at the hotel and Noah happened to get photos and it wasn’t a setup…we just don’t know.
To assume is to make an ass out of u and me.
March 23, 2017 at 11:50 am #3150
March 23, 2017 at 12:37 pm #3172
@wanda102 I’ve reached out to my friend Matt, who is an Evangelical and a Christian scholar on Revelations 3:8.
The trick with Scripture is to always examine it in context, and Revelations is hardly straightforward.
What I do know is that, in the New Testament, it is the only time Jesus spoke directly to John with prophetic visions.
In Chapter 3, Jesus sends message to the seven big churches of the time, and verse 8 appears in a message to the Church of Philadelphia (in Turkey):
Jesus holds the Key of David, generally interpreted as meaning “key = control” and David as referring to the Kingdom of Israel. It was said the Messiah would come from David’s lineage and would establish an everlasting kingdom. So Jesus is telling the Philadelphia Church, which was going through hard times, that while things were tough, the people stayed true to His word, and thus he has opened the door to the Kingdom of Israel which nobody can shut”.
[Side note: this is where Jews for Jesus is partially derived from. God’s covenant with Moses and Abraham set up the Jews as having a special relationship with the One God, and He would give them the Land of Israel, now and forever. The New Testament expanded that story by declaring that these covenants would be kept, but the Messiah would be Jesus]
I would exercise (exorcise?) caution, though. Given that the theme of mirrors, reflection, upside-down images (see those fucking keys to the right?), I would be more inclined to believe it is a Deceptive Entity delivering this message, thus twisting its meaning in all the wrong ways. See re: “Sin with Perfection” vs “Sinless Perfection”
Unless, of course, you buy the Jungian self-realization narrative line, in which one cannot find The Self without incorporating the Darkness. The Jesus story, read as metaphor, is about achieving spiritual renewal and finding The Self.
Now, I’ll just clean off my hand here and get back to FUCKING WORK.
March 23, 2017 at 12:43 pm #3174
@bryan Didn’t know what that phrase meant. I get how it may refer to The Boy Who Cried Wolf. At some point, Noah’s lies may run out, and the real threat will appear.
Mind you, Googling brought up references to a book called The Celestial Steam Locomotive, which seems like a silly sci-fi book from 1983, but also this link. Odd to have this title, but the description is apt: trying to extract meaningful phrases out of random bits of audio. i.e. assigning meaning to everything we’re experiencing when in fact, a cigar is sometimes just a cigar.
March 23, 2017 at 12:45 pm #3175
March 23, 2017 at 12:45 pm #3176
You’re the best @larry! A font of knowledge. Perhaps this is Noah claiming that he, like Jesus (the auDACITY), requires unrelenting belief in him for us to succeed. If we join his program, we need to trust him implicitly, and the kingdom will be ours. Manipulative as heck, but unsurprising.
March 23, 2017 at 12:47 pm #3177
March 23, 2017 at 12:58 pm #3179
Don’t want to tag the shadows so often that the shadow becomes them…
March 23, 2017 at 1:13 pm #3180
March 23, 2017 at 1:25 pm #3184RussellParticipant
But, his behavior last night hardly invites a level of trust… making it hard, I would think, for anyone to believe much of what he says on face value. (I think he is quickly proving that he is a man driven by personal agendas.)
Originally, I was intrigued (somewhat amused) by the persona he puts out there, but I would not trust a man who embraces a “destroy all others” philosophy. People near him will get wounded by his actions, I bet. So, if he blackmails someone to get what he wants, that person is in danger by simple association. Even as he asks for that person’s assistance…
I am confused by his actions, to be honest. He seems like a dangerous guy, to me.
But… what does he need from this community and what is he willing to do to get it?
March 23, 2017 at 1:31 pm #3192
@russell As to what he needs from us…For now? Attention. The more we talk about him the more it draws us to him. We can say we don’t trust him, don’t like him, all we want, but we’d all jump at the chance to meet him like Lia and (we thought) Bryan did. That’s his power for now, our eyes on his product, the man himself.
March 23, 2017 at 1:38 pm #3196
March 23, 2017 at 1:42 pm #3198
March 23, 2017 at 1:59 pm #3206
@sfire8 Hold up, there was a scale in the room? There’s that old Egyptian belief about the scale…that you must abolish all sin and guilt before your death and that in order to enter the afterlife your heart must be lighter than a feather
March 23, 2017 at 2:15 pm #3214
March 23, 2017 at 2:47 pm #3225
@meghanmayhem Yeah, the scale is the box thing in the picture. But when DLB asked me about the book, he said “There wasn’t a book on a scale in the room?”
I’m not sure how/if that ties anything together, but from what he said they seemed linked from his perspective…
March 23, 2017 at 3:37 pm #3246
March 23, 2017 at 3:02 pm #3230
Unless, of course, you buy the Jungian self-realization narrative line, in which one cannot find The Self without incorporating the Darkness. The Jesus story, read as metaphor, is about achieving spiritual renewal and finding The Self.
Actually, The mythos surrounding Jesus and Christianity centers around the mortification of one’s self and the total and uncompromising surrender to the will of their god.
March 23, 2017 at 3:53 pm #3255
March 23, 2017 at 3:54 pm #3256
PS Also – Authenticity. There are certain things you can’t buy, no matter how hard you try and force it to happen
March 23, 2017 at 3:56 pm #3257
Subterranean textual intercourse.
March 23, 2017 at 3:57 pm #3258
Boom. Finally identified the illusive triangle in the hieroglyphics on the spine.
The Sacred Sothic Triangle
The cycles of life or the reflections of the self
March 23, 2017 at 3:58 pm #3259
He’s just going about it in a way that it wouldn’t make sense that he wants to be seen as credible. If that was his case he would have taken Bryan and shown him he’s not such a ‘bad guy’ that everyone perceives him as. That he gives this persona to push people – or some nonsense like that. Blackmailing a person in this way just makes us distrust him more. So again, why do all of this?
March 23, 2017 at 4:01 pm #3260
March 23, 2017 at 4:03 pm #3262
@darthzannah – that’s the beauty of it. He doesn’t have to be. If he surrounds himself with people we all like and respect, he can getaway with murder because the people we like will have his back.
I think the blackmail could have happened because @bcbishop wasn’t a “for sure” thing. He didn’t know which way he would go, so he did what he could to get the answer he wanted.
It’s like that scene in Goodfellas when they rob the truck and take the drivers license. They weren’t sure if he’d rat, so to make sure, they took his license and made sure that he knew what would happen. Noah took Bryan’s picture with the girl and made sure his wife would know.
March 23, 2017 at 4:06 pm #3265
Some lite reading on NOAH, ABRAM/ABRAHAM, and Sarai/Sarah:
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
In biblical terms, Ham fucked with Abraham in that tent, then went to snicker at his bros that their dad was in a compromising situation. Shem and Japeth took a blanket, put it on their shoulders, and backed in to the room, covering their father but never seeing his nakedness (which, biblically, is a big deal).
When Noah woke up, he was like, “Um, WT actual EFFFF?” He either remembered or deduced what had happened and cursed the only person he felt comfortable cursing: his grandson (since his god had literally just (within the year) made a covenant with him to bless his sons, he didn’t want to curse them).
1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the Lord had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother’s son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.
7 And the Lord appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the Lord, who appeared unto him.
8 And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, having Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the Lord, and called upon the name of the Lord.
9 And Abram journeyed, going on still toward the south.
10 And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.
11 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:
12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.
13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
14 And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.
15 The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh’s house.
16 And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.
17 And the Lord plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram’s wife.
18 And Pharaoh called Abram and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?
19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.
20 And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.
1 And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.
2 And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.
3 And he went on his journeys from the south even to Bethel, unto the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Hai;
4 Unto the place of the altar, which he had make there at the first: and there Abram called on the name of the Lord.
5 And Lot also, which went with Abram, had flocks, and herds, and tents.
6 And the land was not able to bear them, that they might dwell together: for their substance was great, so that they could not dwell together.
7 And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram’s cattle and the herdmen of Lot’s cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land.
8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.
9 Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left.
10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.
11 Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other.
12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.
13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly.
14 And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
18 Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the Lord.
10 And the vale of Siddim was full of slimepits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, and fell there; and they that remained fled to the mountain.
11 And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way.
12 And they took Lot, Abram’s brother’s son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.
13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.
14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.
15 And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus.
16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.
17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king’s dale.
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.
20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty’s sake.
30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty’s sake.
32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.
33 And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord:
28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
(AND BECA– USE HE DIDN’T GET IT THE FIRST TIME)
20 And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man’s wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
8 Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.
9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
10 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife’s sake.
12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father’s house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
14 And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and womenservants, and gave them unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife.
15 And Abimelech said, Behold, my land is before thee: dwell where it pleaseth thee.
16 And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved.
17 So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children.
18 For the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham’s wife.
1 And the Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did unto Sarah as he had spoken.
2 For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.
3 And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.
4 And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him.
5 And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.
6 And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear will laugh with me.
7 And she said, Who would have said unto Abraham, that Sarah should have given children suck? for I have born him a son in his old age.
8 And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.
9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham’s sight because of his son.
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
15 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.
16 And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bow shot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
20 And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
21 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.
1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
March 23, 2017 at 4:08 pm #3266
@mike I’m curious how he will spin this so he actually has loyal followers. I’m sure it will happen, specially if he does gather the right crew. His tactics so far are very….Noah-like. If that makes sense… douche-baggy I think is the word I was trying to find.
haha I do appreciate that reference and that does make sense. Always be one step ahead so if they feel push back you have an Ace in your pocket.
March 23, 2017 at 4:10 pm #3267
@darthzannah – He ain’t gotta spin that hard. I respect a man who’ll blackmail his coerced allies for his own gain
March 23, 2017 at 4:20 pm #3273
March 23, 2017 at 4:12 pm #3269
I think that very well could have been his play, @mike. And it could have worked, if I didn’t feel comfortable sharing what happened openly here (and with my wife). So thank you again to everyone for making this the kind of community where I felt I could be honest about what went down.
In a lot of ways, I’m starting to see last night as Noah’s first test of us as a community: giving both @lilmsfancpants and I radically different treatments to see how we would react, and potentially start a rift in the community between pro- and anti-Noah factions.
Alternate theory: last night was data collection in the old school OSDM sense of the term. I never took the Tension questionnaire and wasn’t part of Indoctrination. Last night Noah (or the people he works for) got to see how I would react to a nude woman in a shower, where my empathy would lead me, whether I would think it was an opportunity to take advantage, etc. Cruel, twisted stuff, but something we should consider in all future interactions.
March 23, 2017 at 4:13 pm #3270KevinParticipant
But if he knows Bryan is an influencer with good credibility with us, would the blackmail ever really work?
Noah would have to think we’d believe Bryan’s version of events over his, right? And now Noah’s risked his own credibility by trying to blackmail someone people probably trust.
March 23, 2017 at 4:13 pm #3271
“Some light reading”
::posts half a bible:: 😉
The blackmail could be a way of avoiding “pay to play” accusations? Though that’s kinda rendered moot once @bcbishop straight up told us about the compromising position he was put in.
Hah, @addisonborn .. yup. Since Bryan exposed the blackmail right away, we can determine how seriously to take Noah if he follows through on his threat or backs away.
March 23, 2017 at 4:16 pm #3272
I’m with @111error – This could be an effective fear mongering tactic from Noah. By setting up a blackmail-able situation for someone who he knows will run to the community to tell all about it, he’s proven, publicly, that he can place people into compromising situations and using an established mouthpiece, Bryan, to do so.
Now if he punishes Bryan, Bryan will no doubt publicize that and Noah will have effectively communicated to the whole community that he is not fucking around.
March 23, 2017 at 4:21 pm #3274
March 23, 2017 at 4:24 pm #3276
March 23, 2017 at 4:26 pm #3278
March 23, 2017 at 8:34 pm #3315
@addisonborn you are not alone in wanting to see how far he’ll go. Of course I’m safely all the way over here so once again I can say things without repercussion.
(Sorry guys – I just got home and am catching up.)
(And yes YAY LA VISIT though I have to admit I’m pretty excited about going to Taiwan first. But hopefully I’ll see some of you when I’m out there. In LA. Not Taiwan.)
March 23, 2017 at 4:31 pm #3280
March 23, 2017 at 4:33 pm #3282
I’d love to see Noah try to retaliate in some fashion.
To be an effective fearmonger, you actually have to pose a legitimate threat. All Noah Sinclair has done thus far is threaten me with something that seems terrible on the surface, but I shared with my wife and the community the moment after I hung up with him.
That’s the illusion of power, not power itself. It’s theater. And I’ll consider him an empty, impotent threat until I’m convinced otherwise.
March 23, 2017 at 5:03 pm #3287
March 23, 2017 at 5:10 pm #3290
One more thing that’s rising to the surface as the day wears on: Noah’s final words to me.
“I hope you’ll tell the story knowing the only fear was ever inside your head. I can’t wait to dive in deeper with you.”
That actually doesn’t sound like somebody that was trying to fearmonger or threaten at all. In the light of day, that reads more like a personal growth guru using a kind of radical immersion therapy.
Was Noah simply testing me to see if I would come clean with this information (to my family and to everyone here), despite how it might reflect upon me? He kept inferring that this would look bad when all the pieces were revealed, which I mentioned directly to some of you last night when things were going on.
So was last night, in essence, Noah Sinclair putting me in a situation where I had two choices?
1. Be cowed, and do whatever he said.
2. Not give a fuck — the Noah Sinclair way — and spill what happened, and let the chips fall where they may?
I’m not sold, but if — IF — the second one was what was really happening last night, he may not be as full of shit as I first thought. Too early to tell for me, but an interesting wrinkle.
March 23, 2017 at 5:14 pm #3291
See, before, I was like “dude thinks I’m a loser? whatever. I’m a loser. I’m going to Taiwan* and Scotland this summer.”
Now, after last night? I’m like “NOAH I AM NOT A LOSER LET ME INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN”
And those final words just make it worse. 🙂
So Bryan, did you tell Miranda?
* Also Los Angeles, on the tail end of the Taiwan trip…
- This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Megan.
March 23, 2017 at 5:16 pm #3293
March 23, 2017 at 5:41 pm #3295
@bcbishop Interesting. Trial by fire just to prove you are worth the time. kinda like looking into a mirror that shows the past you and the future you in the present, and liking what you see. I like that. If that is the case, it would seem to me you passed the test with flying colors.
Now I cant get that old school house rock song out of my head. 3 is the magic number.
March 23, 2017 at 6:13 pm #3303AnonymousInactive
I try to keep up with everything during the day but there’s a lot to consume, so I apologize if this has already been explored.
I don’t know @bcbishop because I’m new and live in the frozen midwest, but I can clearly see that he holds a lot of credibility, respect and friendship here. That said @kevin I think you’re statement is correct about Bryan. Why wouldn’t we believe him?
My observations as of today:
– Noah told Bryan that his event, which was very negative and disturbing, was going well and was key to things moving along.
– Lia’s experience with Noah was much more positive, even earning a loose “Team Noah???” declaration from her.
– The “prostitute” told Bryan, “Pretty soon they’re all going to stop believing in you, and that’s when you know it’s begun. When they don’t believe you anymore.”
– Noah told Lia that his son’s favorite story is “The boy who cried wolf”.
Some of us obviously have our reservations with Noah (I can’t speak for everyone). Perhaps people that participated in Tension have a negative expectation of him because of past experiences. As a new person, I defiantly wasn’t super hyped about him after visiting his website (yea, I sent my “pick me, pick me” email). But now we have one of our own meeting him in person and it wasn’t a terrible experience. What if Noah is setting up Bryan as the boy who cried wolf? Perhaps Bryan continues to have these negative experiences with Noah that he freely tells us about, but others have positive ones? Is there a point in time when we, as individuals who have/hear about more and more interactions with Noah, will be forced to make a decision about who we believe. Bryan wasn’t told “if they stop believing in you” but “when they stop believing in you”.
They said Lust is going to destroy us. What could be worse that coming to the point where we no longer believe a trusted friend? The worst part about that, if this stupid theory is even close to relevant, is that’s not the end. It’s when we know it’s begun.
March 23, 2017 at 7:36 pm #3308MarandaParticipant
I also think that Noah’s “blackmail” wasn’t actually intended to work as such. A few posts ago I suggested that Bryan’s meeting with the hooktress was actually a test of some sort, and I know others have suggested that it could have been OSDM datamining. Noah would definitely have known that Bryan would go public with what happened, and he even encourages it with his last call (“I hope you’ll tell the story knowing the only fear was ever inside your head”). What if Noah’s plan to recruit Bryan as an “influencer” is simply just to get him to recount the night’s events?
March 23, 2017 at 7:42 pm #3309
Whatever you do, don’t show weakness with Noah. Its like dealing with a bully, he will prey on your weaknesses and insecurities! He’s worked you well – stand up to him now!
March 23, 2017 at 8:22 pm #3313
March 23, 2017 at 8:27 pm #3314
@bruinbown – I know @bcbishop and 110% believe him. Bryan is seriously THE BEST to fuck with, he goes all in, drinks ALL the kool-aid, and it’s amazing. Honestly I’ve never seen anything like it. And I’m insanely jealous because I’ll never get out of my own head (or get my head out of my ass) enough to have that experience. 🙂
March 23, 2017 at 8:36 pm #3316
March 23, 2017 at 11:01 pm #3321
March 23, 2017 at 11:28 pm #3323
March 24, 2017 at 12:20 am #3324Taylor WintersParticipant
I think we need to invest in ourselves and in your friendships right now. Make sure you know who you can trust and who’s on your side because those lines are going to blur quickly.
With these shadow versions of everyone out there, will their message be confused with the real version’s message? With sides being drawn already with Team Noah and Team Anti-Noah, will you believe what friends on the other sides say? With people being blackmailed, can you believe their words if they don’t have the integrity to come to us and report the truth like @bcbishop did.
Keep your friends close, it’s going to get bumpy in here.
March 24, 2017 at 6:43 am #3330Beth HippleParticipant
March 24, 2017 at 10:46 am #3360
Some things don’t seem to add up. Perhaps Bryan is already compromised?
1. The bed in the room looks like its perfectly made with two towels on the bed. According to Bryan there was a used condom in an overturned trash can. If Noah had just left the room after being with the prostitute wouldn’t the bed be anything but perfectly made.
2. Bryan says the prostitute was naked in the shower. He also says that the she had make-up smeared all over. Wouldn’t the make-up come off in the shower.
3. Why are the bathroom towels on the bed. Not a single towel in the bathroom?
4. Also if Noah was trying to blackmail Bryan why would the prostitute ask him to bring her a towel. I would think it would be much harder for Bryan to explain to his wife a naked woman with him in a hotel room. (if the idea is to provide the prostitute with some privacy – well she did have take her clothes off in the room anyway).
Could Bryan now be Noah’s agent?
March 24, 2017 at 11:18 am #3369
Bryan is not compromised. Everything is fine.
March 24, 2017 at 11:20 am #3370
March 24, 2017 at 11:24 am #3371
March 24, 2017 at 11:24 am #3372
March 24, 2017 at 11:27 am #3374
March 24, 2017 at 11:31 am #3375
March 24, 2017 at 11:31 am #3376
@addisonborn At this point, we should probably all be scared. We’re just hanging out in a forum for an “immersive experience” whose creator doesn’t seem to be in charge anymore, getting stalked by shadow versions of ourselves, and heading to random events by ourselves where anything could happen.
March 24, 2017 at 11:34 am #3377
March 24, 2017 at 11:50 am #3379AnonymousInactive
@bcbishop I tried to send back the Tulpa’s (shadows) yesterday but I don’t believe that it worked.
March 24, 2017 at 11:53 am #3382AnonymousInactive
@bcbishop I can get my hands on some Angelica and belladonna. I believe that it requires the power of many to send back the servitudes created by many. I can link you to a ritual we could try performing and put it on periscope. Unless you are scared by magick?
March 24, 2017 at 12:02 pm #3387JackieParticipant
Awe, the link to the blog is broken now. Foretelling?
March 24, 2017 at 12:04 pm #3388Brad RuweParticipant
In case you missed it, Lust put up a cut of the Periscopes on their FB page. Def using the video to recruit more people.
March 24, 2017 at 12:11 pm #3389
March 24, 2017 at 12:40 pm #3404KristinParticipant
This is fine. Everything is fine… right???? ???
March 24, 2017 at 2:08 pm #3430
March 24, 2017 at 4:43 pm #3463
Bryan’s unpublished YELP review of the Olive Motel:
“It didn’t seem like the kind of place where one would go to get be blackmailed, by photographing him with a naked meth-head skank hooker in a room with obscure Egyptian supernatural iconography, but you can’t judge a book by its cover. FIVE STARS!”
March 24, 2017 at 5:18 pm #3482
Kind of really creepy…. That hotel was the site of a real murder of a meth addicted teenager a few years ago
March 24, 2017 at 5:24 pm #3486
March 29, 2017 at 2:12 pm #4353MichelleParticipant
Noah is insane!
March 29, 2017 at 6:06 pm #4435
So I had a thought. @bcbishop assumed the woman in the shower was a lady of the night. I have 2 alternate ideas on who she could have been. 1.) It could have been Sarah Sinclair. If it is Sarah she could have been in on the whole thing to set @bcbishop up. Sarah being A.) his wife or B.) Ermmmmm his sister ::Throws up a little in my own mouth:: Or maybe she is Noah’s baby mama. Who knows, Noah may be into role play and they have been doing this awhile, hence “This used to be exciting”
April 3, 2017 at 2:15 pm #5617
I’d planned on keeping this in my back pocket both for privacy reasons, and in case it ever became something I could use against Noah Sinclair. But after reading @thegilded’s recent post, it’s probably better to go full #NeverSilent.
Blackmail photo from Noah below. This is the fake prostitute — who, from conversations I’ve had with other members of the community, I believe was not played by Sarah Sinclair.
April 3, 2017 at 2:20 pm #5619
April 3, 2017 at 2:47 pm #5635
April 3, 2017 at 4:58 pm #5673
That photo isn’t terribly incriminating.
April 13, 2017 at 12:41 pm #8177
@bcbishop – This blackmail photo is you AND Sarah. I could be mistaken as my eyes aren’t always the best at identifying faces, but my research says that woman is the same Sarah Sinclair that met with the focus group. Perhaps the focus group members can help to confirm or deny.
April 13, 2017 at 12:46 pm #8180
April 13, 2017 at 12:59 pm #8185
April 13, 2017 at 1:11 pm #8187
April 13, 2017 at 1:25 pm #8192
April 13, 2017 at 1:40 pm #8196
May 18, 2017 at 5:09 pm #14103
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