2/19/18 – Declare Your Side

This topic contains 80 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  Rpearl 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • #28799
     Sam 
    Participant

    We’ve been chatting in the Slack today, following a TMC puzzle and a call to expose the OSDM, about sides and paths and our comfort around declaring them. I have said often I’m not sure where I stand — partially because I often stand with people not groups. I’m a sucker for charisma perhaps.

    And so I received a call from Morgan. Guess we truly are registered.

    M: Is this Sam I’m speaking to?

    S: yes it is. Hello Morgan.

    M: (quoting my Slack post) “not quite ready to commit yet….. awkwardddd”

    S: ha, yes, it seems that’s where I’m at at the moment.

    M: might I make a suggestion then?

    S: of course

    M: if you truly stand with the OSDM, support them, believe in what they’re doing, then post about it, write about it, and tag it with the same hashtags.

    I think he may have said something else that I currently can’t recall, and then he hung up.

    Dearest Morgan, I shall see where I stand after your followers present their evidence. But just know that I do have specific questions re: your agenda, if we have a chance to talk again. I don’t suppose you enjoy chats over tea instead of brusque phone calls?

  • #28800
     Sarah 
    Participant

    So, we are down to a ‘You’re either with us or against us’ mentality then? If we don’t choose BOS, we must be OSDM? That is bullshit.

    Also, for someone who recently started flouting transparency, why hide behind a restricted phone call? That isn’t being very transparent.

    • #28801
       Meghan Mayhem 
      Participant

      @silvitni I meannnn, I’m pretty sure he already did give out his number recently. I seem to recall quite the queue to have a chat. I seem to remember 4 or 5 hours of chats in fact.

  • #28802
     Sarah 
    Participant

    @meghanmayhem But why choose this particular phone call to restrict? That’s where I’m confused.

  • #28803
     Robert Fuller 
    Participant

    Morgan called me after he called Sam (I was part of the Slack discussion, along with @silvitni, who also received a call but missed it). He told me he was happy I enjoyed his little puzzles. On Slack, I had told Sam that the puzzles technically weren’t really meant for us (i.e. non-BOS). On the phone, Morgan said, “Technically, the puzzles were for you.” He said he liked me, he liked that I was telling people to choose their own path, but he didn’t understand why I wasn’t choosing his path. So he told me to post about why I don’t support the BOS and to tag it with hashtags. His tone was not friendly.

    Well, I’m not going to do that, Morgan. How about, instead, you tell me why I should join BOS? Because I currently don’t have a reason to. I don’t have the information I need. It’s a resistance group, but what exactly are you resisting? All I’ve gotten for the past seven months are lies and half-truths and enigmas. If I joined your little resistance, I have no idea what I’d be fighting against. If your offer to continue our telephone conversation from the other day over beers was genuine, I will absolutely take you up on it and let you lay it all out and explain why I should support your group. But don’t call me and try to bully me into it with some sort of “with us or against us” ultimatum, because all that does is piss me off and make me even more resistant to join you.

    It’s really not difficult to gain my loyalty. But you’ve never even tried.

    • #28804
       Unseen Presence 
      Participant

      Without even managing to be part of that conversation, I’m RIGHT where you are, @remrelganaps.

      Of course, perhaps Morgan hasn’t called me because I’ve already told him that directly. If Morgan wants me to join, I’d like to know -exactly what- I would be getting into. What I’ve seen so far doesn’t quite add up for me.

      But I’m more than willing to admit that I might be just missing something. But as it stands right now, I continue to -lean- towards the OSDM, because at least there I have some idea of what I would be part of. Even if it’s as dark, occult and evil as everyone wants to believe–at least it’s HONESTLY that.

      You want me, Morgan? Tell me why.

      Otherwise, I’m choosing from the only side that I, personally, understand.

    • #28805
       111error 
      Participant

      @unseenpresence

      You want me, Morgan? Tell me why.

      Because the OSDM kidnaps and tortures people, holds them hostage and forcibly rapes them because they believe that’s how they can raise an ancient God.

      If you need any more information than this as to why I oppose them, I’m not entirely sure why or what else I could possibly tell you, and I’ve no idea why you think I’d be willing to beg you not to support the rape and torture of innocent people.

      BUT YOU DO YOU, BOO.

      And now, here are some anagrams of my email account “OSDM Outreach” :

      Uh Motorcades
      Mustache Odor
      Humored Tacos
      A Rectum’s Hood
      A Hoed Scrotum
      A Douche Storm

    • #28807
       Lauren Bello 
      Moderator

      Also, “hard outcomes”

    • #28808
       Violet 
      Participant

      Also, “hard outcomes”

      I feel like this will be accurate either way.

  • #28806
     Unseen Presence 
    Participant

    @111error

    I appreciate the anagrams.

    I will contemplate the rest.

  • #28809
     shinobi 
    Participant

    @111error I’m in.

  • #28810
     Robert Fuller 
    Participant

    Dearest Morgan, I shall see where I stand after your followers present their evidence.

    So far, I’ve seen @nothenrygale complain about stuff he brought upon himself when he signed up for Lust, and @daela condemning the OSDM for Tension stuff that was later revealed to be theater. If this is their evidence, I’m not impressed.

    If this isn’t a game, why are we treating it like one? WE KNOW NOTHING.

    • #28811
       Lauren Bello 
      Moderator

      So far, I’ve seen @nothenrygale complain about stuff he brought upon himself when he signed up for Lust, and @daela condemning the OSDM for Tension stuff that was later revealed to be theater.

      Just to be clear, I specifically stayed away from anything making accusations that could have been dismissed as theater.

      This is what I said:

      THEY’VE GATHERED OUR INFORMATION.
      ^they have! this is provable

      THEY’VE TURNED US AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.
      ^They have! This is also provable. This is mostly Tension-era, but still very demonstrably true. The infamous pool party comes to mind.

      THEY HAVE MADE US FORGET WHO WE ARE.
      ^Sure, maybe this one is subjective, but multiple people will tell you that they have felt pressured to conform and to do things they would never otherwise agree to.

      THEY HAVE MADE US COMPLICIT.
      ^In Ascension they literally had us pick people to be sacrificed, tell on people to be punished, etc. Whether or not people truly died, the point isn’t negated: we cheered for deaths, and we became complicit in what we perceived as atrocities.

      It doesn’t matter if calling The Omega Council didn’t result in anyone being exposed or punished or banished: the act itself was heinous enough.

      In the Milgrim experiments, the victims may not have been actually hurt, but the psychological damage to the “electrocutioners” was real.

    • #28812
       Unseen Presence 
      Participant

      I wholeheartedly understand and acknowledge that your version of stance is one that you got to through cause and effect, @daela. I don’t have any problem with why you chose the way you do.

      It’s very, very hard for me to do the same–because even being told “they rape and kidnap people” etc. is hard for me–because I’m really certain that much of the MSE, if not all, wasn’t as real as it appeared to be…and because the BOS didn’t really save anyone (and I wasn’t there for that night, either. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had been.)

      I do not begrudge anyone who has made the stance with the BOS. I do feel pressure to choose the BOS ‘or else’ (in some fashion), and even Morgan’s statement to me only mitigates that so far. For those of us who came later, it’s rough to have so many people so adamant about something–and to simply not have the hard-real-legit experiences to match that level of feeling.

      Strangely, it’s making me wonder if what I really want is:

      To see enough of both sides to be able to decide.

      So for now, I’m taking the actions I can think of to take that will give me the ability to do so.

      And yes, if that means reaching out to both sides to get answers, then right now that’s what I’m going to do. Of course, right now there only appears to be one side that I can speak to, so there’s that.

    • #28824
       Robert Fuller 
      Participant

      @daela Again, these are all things that you all brought upon yourselves. You’re basically saying that the OSDM should be stopped because they brought out parts of yourselves that you didn’t like. Sounds to me like they did you a big favor, by teaching you things about yourselves.

  • #28813
     superstar 
    Participant

    THEY’VE GATHERED OUR INFORMATION.

    They’ve gathered information that _we provided_ to them. How is this any different (or nefarious) than what Google, Amazon, etc, etc, etc. does on a daily basis?

    THEY’VE TURNED US AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.

    No one can _make_ you turn against someone else. That decision is on the individual.

    • #28816
       Lauren Bello 
      Moderator

      No one can _make_ you turn against someone else. That decision is on the individual.

      I should probably flesh that out a bit more.

      There were a few specific examples I had in mind, from the Tension era:

      – The OOA told Person A that Person B was a detractor, and told Person B that Person A was a detractor. They set them both to spy on each other in increasing distrust.

      – The OOA encouraged me not to open a package, and encouraged someone else to pressure me to open the package. Again we were pitted against each other.

      – The Omega Council encouraged us to report on one another.

      There are many more examples, but that’s the sort of thing I had in mind when I said they turned us against each other. I wasn’t blaming them for ordinary participant squabbles: they literally ordered us to betray and/or undermine each other.

    • #28817
       Kevin 
      Participant

      @daela I wasn’t around for this, but couldn’t everyone have gone to the other person directly to resolve the issue? And honest question here, what made people want to comply with these requests?

    • #28820
       Lauren Bello 
      Moderator

      I wasn’t around for this, but couldn’t everyone have gone to the other person directly to resolve the issue?

      Once we started catching on to what was happening, we did. But I didn’t intend to make that seem like we were blameless victims – more to shine a light on what OSDM enjoys doing, the tactics they use, what they stand for. OSDM did these things all the time, goaded interpersonal resentments and suspicions on a regular basis; BOS has never done anything remotely like that.

      And honest question here, what made people want to comply with these requests?

      That’s the question for the ages: why people comply and conform under pressure. I know that I did at Ascension. Removed from the realm of the normal, you find yourself looking to others for cues.

      I also think some of it boils down to the question, “If I choose to resist, does my path end?” And now I can see people feeling the same pressure about BOS: if I don’t join, does that mean I get nothing? Which is why I want to make doubly sure that people who feel that way don’t just join the majority for the wrong reasons. It shouldn’t be about conforming: decisions made hastily, to fit in, are often regretted.

    • #28828
       Unseen Presence 
      Participant

      now I can see people feeling the same pressure about BOS: if I don’t join, does that mean I get nothing?

      And for what it’s worth, definitely feeling that pressure. Even @111error‘s statement back to me had that sort of ring to it, even as it attempted to defuse it with a joke immediately after in the same message.

      “If you don’t understand that they’re evil/bad/ruthless/immoral, then essentially, I don’t know what your malfunction is–but if you want to be a malfunction, then you do you, boo.”

      If it’s that obvious and easy, then hopefully he’ll actually be ABLE to prove it, like he claims he now can. But in the meantime, it’s a legitimate worry that if we don’t choose the BOS, then we’ll LITERALLY get nothing–because the OSDM has gone radio silent. And if the BOS is actually getting more militant, aggressive, than even those attempting neutrality may find themselves isolated.

      I’m not certain that will HAPPEN–but I do feel that pressure.

      one of the main things that’s always there is a nagging voice that BOS and OSDM are still the same.

      You and me both, @kevin. You and me both.

  • #28814
     Maranda 
    Participant

    At this point, BOS does seem like A Good Thing. I want to help, but everything I (think I) know about OSDM and their injustices is all second-hand. Engaging for the sake of engaging would feel disingenuous and fake. For all the outrage in the world, what could possibly be done from an ocean away?

    And then there’s the fact that we really don’t know much about the group we’re up against, or what lies beyond the OSDM, if anything. At this point, my gut says if BOS/TMC is really aiming to right some rather serious wrongs, continuing to infiltrate and leak info a little bit at a time is the safest way to go.

    I also can’t shake the feeling that this is a losing battle, as much as I want to believe otherwise.

  • #28815
     Sarah 
    Participant

    @111error, you’ve told us why we shouldn’t support the OSDM. If they are murderers and rapists, why would we support them? However, we also do not need to support the BOS either. Everything doesn’t have to be black and white.

    So why do you need us? For numbers?

  • #28818
     superstar 
    Participant

    they literally ordered us to betray and/or undermine each other.

    It’s awful that the OOA did this. But, I still maintain that it was/is the individual’s choice whether or not to follow said orders. Particularly orders from an organization of dubious trustworthiness.

    • #28821
       Lauren 
      Participant

      So why do you need us? For numbers?

      Human shields.

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Lauren.
  • #28819
     Sarah 
    Participant

    Personal responsibility is a thing. We make our own decisions in the end. We choose to allow outside powers dictate to us what we can and cannot do. How we should and should not react. We choose to turn on each other. We choose to betray and undermine friends. Not the OOA. Not the OSDM. Us.

  • #28826
     Maranda 
    Participant

    Here’s the thing. I really want to believe in Doing The Right Thing with BOS. I really want to trust in Morgan and his vision. But my gut is screaming “trap.” Catching flies with honey, as it were. To what end, I can’t guess, but I don’t want this to be true. @111error, I hope you prove me wrong, so for the time being, I can’t commit fully, but I will offer my support so long as BOS is doing good.

    That’s the making of a good trap, after all. You walk in in spite of the fact that it’s a trap.

    I hate to doubt you, Morgan. And I’d love to grab food and drinks with you when I’m back in the US, like we talked about over the phone. But I have to leave a little room to doubt. “Doubting people is just a part of getting to know them. What many people call ‘trust’ is really just giving up on trying to understand others, and that very act is far worse than doubting – it’s nothing more than ‘apathy.'”

    (Bonus points if anyone knows where that’s from.)

  • #28827
     Kevin 
    Participant

    So here’s the thing, I’ve been with BOS since 8/05. I was welcomed and invited by Morgan himself to continue questioning BOS. Despite that, I’ve never felt like my views completely lined up with everyone else’s. #burnitdown has never seemed the correct solution to me, especially not from a group who are mainly about making sure people don’t get hurt. The lack of transparency bothered me, but that seems to be changing. The tactics utilized sometimes don’t feel apiece with the stated goals. And it’s mostly in that place where things are askew that I have a problem. Proclaim to be better or do what you have to do to achieve victory, but you can’t really have that both ways. I can accept either, but totally own one.

    As far as the OSDM is concerned, I’m basically in the same place I was in August. I haven’t seen them actually do anything horrible. All of their misdeeds out in the open have been part of performances. We know Ascension was theater and Anointment was too by every indication. So that leaves everything that they’ve done on their own, but I don’t have any solid evidence there. Hell, since March of last year, I’m not even sure where the OSDM’s Lust Experience ends and The System Five/BOS’s begins (almost as if they’re eating the other’s tail). I’ve had what I felt were small moments of growth and I don’t even know who they’re attributable too (the biggest ones for me have been from Noah and Anna, so that’s either two for OSDM or a tie game); could be that the answer is just me. After all, and people have said it right here tonight, others can give you the tools, you’ve got to make the choice on your own.

    And it comes down to our choices. Stand with BOS. Stand with OSDM. Stand with neither. Stand on your own. Stand on the side. Stand in the middle. Stand where you feel fucking comfortable.

    I think the list that Lauren made is excellent, but still reflective of those choices. Each person had to make a decision in each one of those situations (and I can just as easily apply almost all of them to BOS), and throughout all of this, everything has come back to the question of why for me. Why do I feel this way? Why did I do that? Why did I react that way? Why didn’t I react this other way?

    Ultimately, I’ve been chasing my own sense of self around, trying to find the balance among the answers to those questions.

    While I’m trying to get everything out, one of the main things that’s always there is a nagging voice that BOS and OSDM are still the same. Sometimes that voice is quiet, other times loud, right now it’s a screaming roar. There are things that have been unexplained, things that have been reasoned away, and everything in between. Other people have laid it out very well in recent days, I’ve had similar questions, and it’s fairly easy to draw a straight line between the two. There’s engagement, there’s participation, and even tonight a request to share no matter what side you’re on. Pushing people in the middle didn’t even force them to a side, but did provide some of the strongest reactions.

    That’s OSDM fuel right there. Whatever your emotions, lay them out on the table. Offer them up. Pledge your desires. Sacrifice them for freedom.

    • #28829
       Cristen 
      Participant

      @kevin you elegant bastard. Thank you for saying this. I don’t think you and I have ever stood apart on any of this, and I’m not starting now.

      …everything changes, right?

      I know what I saw at MSE: OSDM hurting my friends. I also know that all signs indicate that it was theatre, another show to distract, to elicit reaction. And if any of you were with me that night: you know they certainly got reaction out of me. Which, from the standpoint of the Experiences as a whole, was exactly what I wanted. The desire I pledged for, if you will.

      So I’ve ostensibly “seen” OSDM hurt someone I love for…theatre. I’ve also seen the unfortunate result of BOS’ presence: a division of the community I love. There is anger here. There are other people I love, backed into corners by their choices, Morgan himself very much included.

      And I want to represent something that brings us together, not apart.

    • #28830
       Blondie 
      Participant

      @wanda102 gurl, your allegiances flip flop so much I’m getting whiplash… unless you were never BOS and you were in fact a mole… which your behaviour would in fact support now I think on it… ?

    • #28831
       Cristen 
      Participant

      @blondie to be clear: in the scheme of things, my allegiances don’t matter, and neither does the mole, as
      Morgan himself has said. This is exactly the point I make about unnecessary division.

      My intention was to be thoughtful and reflective about this recent task, same as Kevin. I’m not “flip flopping,” that’s reductive reasoning, I’m saying it doesn’t make a difference, and I think BOS can and should be representative of something bigger than just being anti OSDM/whomever isn’t BOS. They can do better.

    • #28854
       Sam 
      Participant

      Kevin, thank you thank you thank you. This resonates with me a lot.

    • #28887
       Candace 
      Participant

      @kevin I don’t even feel like I need to post my opinion because you’ve put my feelings into words for me! I believe we are somewhere on the same page with our views. The most value I have gained so far has been from multiple different people in this entire experience from Noah to Morgan. At Ascension the OSDM taught me to be present; to feel. I don’t believe the OSDM is all rape and murder if they even do that at all. Most of what I’ve seen from them has been charades they put on to challenge our emotions and ideals. Has anyone been actually killed or raped? Do you believe everything they tell you? Because I don’t. They have fooled me one too many times to believe anything at face value. They “kill” someone but surprise they’re not actually dead, it was just a show. So no I don’t want to burn them down for challenging me. I don’t like liars but I’m just going to go in aware of what they are and look for truth in their games because there are gems of truth to be found. I’m here to continue challenging myself. However, the second one of my friends is in danger and needs my help, I’ll be there. There’s just few people I actually trust. @lazysmartperson blink twice if you need help and I’ll be right over! Lol

  • #28832
     Violet 
    Participant

    @kevin, @izryn, and @wanda102 are all echoing my feels on this.

    I can’t help but feel there’s something we aren’t seeing…in everyone’s enthusiasm for the return of the resistance we aren’t looking at the bigger picture and most importantly, the WHY. Currently, things are still feeling pretty sus and so far, while I WANT to trust Morgan, I’m finding more questions than answers.

  • #28833
     Lawrence Meyers 
    Participant

    I hear something about asking Participants to get involved in promotion for The Experiences?

    PROLOGUE

    Imagine being on a United flight, and the flight attendant is being horrible. Doesn’t matter what you come up with — she’s insulting passengers; throwing hot coffee on them; whispering to the guy in 7A that the guy in 9B banged his wife; putting padlocks on the bathroom doors; spitting peanuts at passengers – whatever. You decide.

    Several passengers are annoyed, including the frequent flyers who have invested a lot in the airline over many years, demonstrating a lot of brand loyalty.

    Half of the other passengers just keep their heads down because, in a big twist, they all belong to the flight attendant’s union.

    The other half are wishing they’d flown Southwest – which never marketed itself as an airline. It marketed FREEDOM. Alas, that option is not available because this is a United hub. If they want to get to their destination, they better shut up.

    The frequent flyers cannot believe this is going on, they all call United Customer Service, and tell the airline all about this flight attendant. Customer service listens intently, takes copious notes, thanks them for their exceptional feedback…

    …and then sends the cops to drag them off the plane, and chucks them under the wheels of an airport bus.

    The flight attendant gets a promotion and a raise…

    United then asks the passengers on that same flight to promote the airline on social media…

    Those not in the union kick open the emergency exits, slide down the chutes, and move out of the city, permanently…so they can fly Southwest.

    Those in the union dutifully follow orders…

    United’s marketing plan crashes and burns…

    The Board of Directors watch the stock crater, wondering what they did wrong.

    ——————————————————————————–
    Chapter 1

    Okay, The Experiences. It’s time for some tough love delivered by the Fuck Palace Dom-on-Call.

    The first rule of crisis PR: Don’t set a fire in your own backyard.

    And certainly don’t drop enough napalm to set Siberia on fire.
    May as well set your pubic hair on fire while you’re at it.

    Want promotion from the rank-and-file?

    Want brand ambassadors?

    Give people:
    1) A brand manager who offers a vision, not DIVISION.
    2) CHOICES that offers participants a life-or-death struggle between well-defined parties – as opposed to a single fear-driven funnel to membership in a passive, inept, clumsy, sycophantic “resistance” that purports to save people from being hurt, but instead leaves them all behind in a depraved dungeon, refuse to take responsibility for it, and then fail to ask their leader any of the questions that they REALLY REALLY should be asking. I mean, who doesn’t want to be part of that organization?
    3) Characters. Narrative. Not puzzles and websites and codes.

    ———————————————————————————–
    Chapter 2

    BoS is a fiction built on a lie, and therefore its leader is a fraud. And a fraud has nothing to offer other than bullying and threats — which is the best he could manage with me and every other right-thinking individual.

    Yet members who are so eager to “help others escape the cult of OSDM” seem bizarrely eager to stay in a Cult of Personality codenamed “Morgan Rooms” — who is in fact so fraudulent that he doesn’t even use his real name on social media.

    Jesus H. Fucking Christ on the cross! The fraud is so big that he’s got people chasing an OSDM mole when it’s as clear as day that HE IS THE FUCKING MOLE. Did nobody but me see “No Way Out”?

    Meanwhile, Morgan wrote this to explain why OSDM is bad:

    “Because the OSDM kidnaps and tortures people, holds them hostage and forcibly rapes them because they believe that’s how they can raise an ancient God.”

    But…uh….hello? BoS left them all behind, obfuscated behind pathetic excuses, and when challenged on it, fumbled around to find excuses before dodging the question completely. NOBODY in BoS has asked or answered a single question I put to them in my earlier post.

    If there is one thing I abhor, it’s hypocrisy driven by the abandonment of personal responsibility. At least Noah Sinclair is screaming to take control of one’s own destiny.

    You want promotion? Here’s a nifty tagline:

    BoS: Leaving Victims Behind Since 8/05.

    Meanwhile, I’ll wager a night of passion on the cum sack with Buffalo Head that BoS is filled with doubters bullied into silence.

    The Experiences ain’t gonna get nuthin’ outta them, nor should they.

    Because where is their home?

    They have none. Why, they’re Ronin! Masterless Samurai looking to serve – and by that I mean, achieve their full potential.

    Will they wander within The Experiences and find a home…

    …or fall out of them altogether?

    The answer is in a dream I had last night. I was on stage in a play and didn’t know my lines – because I hadn’t been given time to learn them. So I walked off the stage because this was obviously not a play I was supposed to be in.

    ———————————————————————————–
    Chapter 3

    The Experiences want promotion?

    GIVE ME SOMETHING TO PROMOTE.

    BoS accomplished nothing. Why join nothing? Why promote nothing?

    OSDM? I can work with that. At least OSDM is the Devil I know. I’ve seen what they offer. They gave me one thing I wanted, and I earned a second in unexpected fashion.

    And go figure! When an organization delivers on what they offer, it earns something called “loyalty”. In fact, I realize there’s so much more I want that they may be able to give me. Much, much more.

    But I don’t know because I don’t have an option to know.

    All I’ve got is confusing messaging.

    I don’t see a brand manager with vision promoting the Experiences. All I see is his divisiveness, both overt and in the shadows. I see a manipulative sociopath as the public face of something that was wonderful, and is now imploding from within.

    When you self-immolate, remember that NOBODY IS COMING TO SAVE YOU.

    You want a hashtag? Try this one: # I no longer trust The Experiences.

    Writing that is like swallowing broken glass.

    It’s heartbreaking…and not in the way it was originally intended.

    —————————————————

    EPILOGUE

    After discussing the matter with my analyst, he ironically points out that The Experiences have themselves developed a Shadow. “The unsurprising result of playing in the unconscious”. It happens in many groups. “It sounds as if whomever runs The Experiences failed to recognize that this Morgan fellow became the manifestation of The Experiences’ very own Shadow. He becomes the vessel for all the ugliest things about The Experiences, including the individuals. It sounds like he isn’t even aware that he is now gripped by his own Shadow, compounding the problem. That’s the risk with tricksters — they often end up tricking themselves.”

    “How does this resolve?”

    “It remains to be seen. It sounds like the longer this Morgan fellow is around, the more likely it devolves, rather than evolves”.

    • #28906
       Chelsea 
      Participant

      I’m playing forum catchup, and holy shit. PREACH @larry PREACH.

  • #28834
     Blondie 
    Participant

    I can’t help but find all this very amusing.

    I defected to BOS in August 2016. I wasn’t recruited. No-one came to me to convince me to join. I saw what was happening, felt it was wrong (whether this is all theatre or not is irrelevant to me – eg sexual assault is still wrong whether it is “part of a show” or not), sought out like-minded people and actually felt honoured to become part of BOS.

    Over the last 18 months, I have had the exact same feeling of “oh, this decision is not a popular one… am I going to miss out because of it?” but I stuck by my position because it was one I made based on my own personal morality. 18 months of pretty constant attack… and now the tide is turning.

    Sucks to be on the receiving end, huh?

    Sucks to be expected to explain and defend your position, right?

    While it would be lovely to all be friends and for there to be no divisions, to live in a world where there are no sides and we all hold hands and eat candy together… I’m afraid this isn’t The Puppy Experience.

    If I’m proven wrong in the long run, then so be it. At least I played the game…

    • #28838
       Cristen 
      Participant

      You’re right, Blondie. This isn’t a safe place. And while I’m not surprised this is the tone of your response, as your friend, I am hurt by it. It does suck to have to defend my position; in fact, one reason I defected to BOS in the first place because I was tired of being maligned for questioning group think. If division exists, it’s because WE create it.

      I don’t think I’ve ever shied away from explaining myself. I think I opened the morning by doing just that. I have to continue to consider why I’m doing something before I do it, or I betray my own nature. While I’m aware it would make things easier here for me: my loyalty is not blind.

      We can continue to go back and forth but I know we’re not going to talk the other down, we know each other too well for that. I love you. And we’re in this together regardless of where we stand and neither of us have the right answer.

  • #28835
     Robert Fuller 
    Participant

    One part of my phone conversation with Morgan last night that I forgot to mention is when he brought up the statement I had made on Slack, about how TMC will not always be the only path for engagement. He wondered how I could see into the future like that. More sarcasm. Make of that response what you will.

    In any case, after sleeping on it (and a lot of not sleeping), I decided to reconsider my position on Morgan’s request. https://www.instagram.com/p/BfbPuzwAFRX/?taken-by=horkology

  • #28836
     Kevin 
    Participant

    18 months of pretty constant attack… and now the tide is turning.

    Why do there need to be attacks from either side though? There can be division and strife and disagreement, but we call try to do it respectfully.

    I rambled about choices last night, but an easy one is for us all to acknowledge each other as people and everything that comes with that.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Kevin.
  • #28837
     Sage 
    Participant

    So we’re back to “if you don’t choose a side, you’re not playing”…or more like, “if you don’t choose BOS you’re not playing.”

  • #28840
     Blondie 
    Participant

    I never said picking BOS is the only way to play. Or that picking a side at all is necessary. What I was trying to say was that you play the game by being true to yourself and making decisions based upon that. For example, I respect that @erisbonn believes in herself as an individual and won’t be swayed until she truly feels it.

    I was trying to explain why I feel the way I do, give some personal context. I understand why what I wrote is being read a certain way, even if that was not my intention.

    18 months can make a person bitter and I acknowledge that comes across in my tone. All I’m trying to get across is that this is what has led to the somewhat triumphant and fervent reaction to last night’s call to action.

  • #28841
     M. 
    Participant

    18 months of pretty constant attack… and now the tide is turning.

    Sucks to be on the receiving end, huh?

    Sucks to be expected to explain and defend your position, right?

    WOW just wow! 18 months of being attacked? I can think of people who have been more attacked throughout this. @coryphella @bcbishop to give an example. Many of us have had moments of being attacked but I’m not sure you’ve been on the receiving end of 18 months of constant questioning and being attacked.

    I get BOS people want to wave their victory banner but let’s be real… this is just one shining moment for BOS. The OSDM will come back harder because (OOG) there’s just too much story to tell still 😉

    I’ve never really declared a side. Even through Tension I never really did even though I leaned OSDM. I’m not on board though with a group that claims either your with us or against us. I won’t be strong armed into joining a resistance that I really don’t believe in or agree with their tactics. And, I definitely won’t jump on the bandwagon because at this very moment they have the upper hand (and I’m using upper hand very loosely).

    • #28842
       Blondie 
      Participant

      That’s your position and I respect that. Although I politely and respectfully disagree.

      I also didn’t mean personally being attacked. I meant BOS as a whole. Just for clarification.

    • #28843
       M. 
      Participant

      We’ve been in this place before (going toe to toe within one another because we’re on opposite sides of an issue). I don’t want us in that toxic place again. I’m not going to address anything except for I interpreted it that you personally felt you were attacked for 18 months.

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  M..
    • #28846
       Blondie 
      Participant

      @michelle I hold my hands up to my poor phrasing. Apologies.

    • #28851
       M. 
      Participant

      @blondie. No apology necessary. ❤️

  • #28845
     Brad Ruwe 
    Participant

    My thinking with this is that if everything has been theater, has been fiction, then my going against the OSDM fits in with that theater as well. But if it’s not theater, if the OSDM truly has been doing these things and harming people, then you can bet I’ll fight them with everything I have. Either way, fiction or not, it’s the right move for me.

  • #28847
     Kevin Hsu 
    Participant

    the king has spun us around, making us dizzy with lies (and truth within the lies). now the king is gone, the game reset, and we are still spinning, rudderless. grab hold of something, someone, an idea, an ideal, anything that you are willing to stabilize yourself with. we begin anew, amid a sea of old.

    i grab a hold of some moments past, times when we may have been shown the truth

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Kevin Hsu.
  • #28849
     Lauren 
    Participant

    It feels like Morgan now owns a bigger share of the company and wants all the interns to help with promotion. Or someone else is forcing his hand. This is “off.”

    I’m rather new to this – started at MSE. So, I have the luxury (?) of not being emotionally invested. However, I’ve researched the story of “The Experiences,” quite a bit. I’m not afraid to choose a side, but right now they both seem to be made up of too many of the the same players. (No one needs to hear my theories but I have them, dammit.)

    From going in blindly to the MSE, my natural inclination was to join the resistance. (Hell I even held onto my phone and kept it on after the rest had given theirs up.) I have a knee-jerk dislike for authority and a legit repulsion to hive-mind stupidity. I like Morgan’s vibe and his American Spirits. But, I smell a set up. It seems like this has happened before…

  • #28850
     Lauren 
    Participant

    And I’m waiting for the 3rd group to magickally appear.

  • #28852
     Megan 
    Participant

    Here are a couple of ideas I think we should abandon:

    1. “The Puppy Experience.” OMG. We all know it’s not The Puppy Experience. We all know what we signed up for. Please, for the love of all things holy, stop explaining to us what it is we signed up for. Blah blah blah hearts destroyed blah. We get it. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting some basic human decency from each other throughout whatever the hell this experience actually *is* and there is ALSO nothing surprising about having gone through almost 2 years of abuse during it and reacting with hostility and anger. The fact of the matter is that things have NOT been civil here for some of us. Pretending they have is disingenuous.

    2. “There is a war coming.” No, there is a decimation coming. Pick a side. Don’t pick a side. I have a feeling it will be over in five minutes.

    3. The supposed crimes of the OSDM. The *only* video I have seen that has ANY crimes listed in it worth considering is @macbethinabathtub‘s. I mean, this was your chance to actually name the specific crimes – and you couldn’t. “They followed me to Disneyland?” You’re really going to be mad that Mike Fontaine passed you a note at Space Mountain and that’s why #burnitdown? OSDM has done literally nothing. Literally. Nothing. Except maybe traumatizing Lia. Everything else has either been something that we chose or was staged consensually. We WANT to be here. We have CHOSEN to be the lambs at the slaughter. Remember that. And remember that some have been saying it’s “not a game” for several months now, long before those notes indicated it. The debate about which parts of this are truth and which parts are theatre didn’t start at the MSE.

    4. ANY value judgements placed on ANYONE’s choices here. We are all here to get what we want. Don’t pretend for a second that what you want isn’t to storm the castle and save the day, and that’s why you’re in the resistance. Just worry about your own damn soul and stop asking other people to make choices based on your values – we hate it when people ask us to do that in real life. Don’t pressure people to pick a side with vague threats that if they don’t they’ll get nothing. If that’s really the truth, is it worth playing in the first place? We are individuals here, not groups, and we’re responsible for our own fates. “You choose your choices. The boat leaves tonight. It will be long and lonely but you won’t be alone. It will be difficult and painful but what else did you expect? The boat leaves tonight. You choose your choices.”

    • #28857
       Sam 
      Participant

      @coryphella YESS. YES YES YES. Particularly #3 & #4. If your desire is to be the hero, than have fun. I never cared much for heroes and savior complexes.

    • #28861
       shinobi 
      Participant

      @persephone I wonder, in regards to heroes and savior complex… what exactly is wrong with wanting to help people?

    • #28862
       Sam 
      Participant

      @shinobi Nothing is wrong with helping people if that’s your jam. And sometimes it is mine. But I exhaust a lot of my energy (emotional and otherwise) helping people every day and I don’t get much from it. I suppose one could talk of ethical obligations (which I sometimes agree with) or a feeling of general do-good (which reeks of savior-complexes which I despise), but if I’m being perfectly honest? I’m tired of being tired. I am absolutely down to help people, but only those who I feel I have mutual relationships with. I help my good friends, my partners, my lovers sometimes, and people who I feel are genuinely grateful and are there for me too. This relates somewhat to my “Slytherin stance” I mentioned in Slack earlier today, but as a Slytherin I am loyal and just and caring, just to a much smaller group of individuals than the other houses. (ignore this reference if you aren’t a harry potter person)

  • #28853
     Violet 
    Participant

    COFUCKINGSIGNED @coryphella

  • #28855
     Sage 
    Participant

    @coryphella, wow! That really laid it down!! I’m officially declaring team “no side.” Not because I can’t make a choice, but because morally I just can’t align with either side, first because I’m not really anti-OSDM (perhaps because I never did Tension or perhaps because I’m not sure what they’ve done is real) I’m also just not a group person, it reminds me of joining a high school clique and that’s never been my thing. I have lost out on making new friends and bonding because of it, but that’s just me. I was open to BOS when it was declared that this was a new game and that they were a new organization doing things differently now. Unfortunately, it seems like more of the same again…. Until I’m proven otherwise, I guess.

  • #28863
     John Sawyer 
    Participant

    Alright, I’m taking a different interpretation. I’m not going to be hashtagging anything here and I’m not going to be discussing this on instagram or facebook because, honestly, those aren’t accounts that intersect with my personal life.

    I don’t have a supporting phone call or insider information, I just have the path I’ve been led down and the contents of this thread and the Slack, and from what I’ve seen the Word is to stand for Something. Not a predetermined side, but to have An Opinion on the sides. Be Informed. Be Active. Be a Participant. TeamBOS, TeamOracle, TeamME… just not Team peanut gallery. I can get behind that.

    So what has the Oracular front office given me? As described elsewhere, I signed up, paid (!) to have my horizons broadened, my limits stretched, and some new experiences. Check, check, check down the line. Get commensurate to what I put in. So am I on their team? Well that depends? The part that puts on a great show and blurs the line of consent a little while keeping a relatively safe space? Absolutely. The part that steps way beyond the line into indoctrination, violence, (brainwashing, kidnapping, puppy-kicking) – that’s bad. I’m against puppy-kicking. Am I also opposing a straw man or a phantom? No clue, but I can take strong stances against fictional villains all day long, and I don’t even need to worry about retribution. And if the OSDM really is this nefarious controlling organization then they’re going to need to offer me more than a promise to broaden my horizons. But let’s be honest, look at the ‘cult’ trappings we’ve seen and then your average college society or Lodge initiation. As for information mining, personality testing, advanced manipulation tactics? They’ll have to up their game a hell of a lot to have anything on Facebook, and I’m not joining a secret society to bring them down either (to be fair, I probably should).

    The BOS front office, on the other hand, is pretty compelling too. I mean, sure, they’re mostly a group defined by opposition but the reasoning is sound, all the personal freedoms and holding the powerful accountable and anti-mind control is easy to support. Taking a long second and third look at what we think we’re seeing, peeling back the veil, all that? Sounds good. The whole underground terrorist organization vibe isn’t fantastic though, and I can’t say I’m feeling oppressed enough to need to resist. But hey, maybe I’m still blind.

    Lots of words, but I said this was about taking a stand. What do I stand for?

    Personal freedom to choose, for choice to be an active process at all times, and that a choice cannot be made for someone.
    For a broadening, and stretching of experience all the way up to the edge.
    For creation and binding over division and breaking.

    What do I believe?
    That you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Civility and persuasion beat out divisiveness and rudeness.
    That siding with is greater than siding against
    That loyalty, like choice, is earned and must be continually refreshed.

    If you represent a Team and want me on board, show me you mean the same, and I’ll be on your side as long as I’m convinced. Peel back the veil, I’m ready.

  • #28907
     Chelsea 
    Participant

    As Morgan said when he was answering questions: Is this the OSDM? A splinter group? Something above the OSDM? I don’t know, but I choose that.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Chelsea.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Chelsea.
    • #28912
       Nicole Mae 
      Participant

      @chelsea over here dropping heat and nobody noticing.

      Glad to see the classic BOS circle jerk distraction techniques to bury anything that doesn’t spread their agenda are still going strong around here. FFS.

    • #28913
       Blondie 
      Participant

      @maenicole If we react, we’re accused of jumping on people and bullying… if we don’t react, then we’re accused of circle jerking…

      Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

      Chelsea made a choice. Great. Well done.

    • #28914
       Brad Ruwe 
      Participant

      How is saying “I’ll never support you” “Dropping heat”? She made a choice. It’s not some crazy burn. She’s just stating her choice.

      Also, I’m curious what you’re interpreting as a “classic BOS circle jerk distraction”. Also curious how you’re claiming people are trying to “bury anything that doesn’t spread their agenda”. People are having discussions. If having an open conversation is “burying” things, then I’m confused.

    • #28916
       Cristen 
      Participant

      @nothenrygale I’ll allow for Chels “dropping heat” in that it’s a bold stance being taken, and she’s willing to have it acknowledged, despite the possibility that may be attacked or ostracized for it. *shrug* As far as bullying per Blondie…eh, we know it does happen. Sometimes intentionally, definitely most often not. There are voices, many new ones, around here that hesitate to go against a prevailing group opinion for fear of being buried (sometimes literally, on forum) for it. Case in point: it’s not inflammatory, but I’ve been staring at this response for ten minutes wondering if I should send it and if it’s going to upset you or anyone else that I’ve explained this.

    • #28917
       Unseen Presence 
      Participant

      FWIW, there have definitely been times where I’ve been a little worried about speaking out against or in difference to the prevailing attitudes of the majority. Especially when I first started speaking up at all. I probably would have made my choice faster if I hadn’t run into that impression.

      That being said, I’m not personally seeing ‘bullying’ tactics in the last few days. It’s possible it’s happening somewhere that I haven’t seen. But my personal impression is that the last few days have been a predominantly healthy–occasionally spirited–debate, but not one where specific ideas/attitudes/opinions/outlooks are being shut down.

    • #28919
       M. 
      Participant

      I personally like the part where @chelsea says:

      Given the opportunity, I will actively work with your enemies.

      Her choosing a side isn’t a crazy burn, @nothenrygale, I agree. Her stating she will work with the enemies of the BOS if given the opportunity, IMO, is bringing some heat. Because, as I read it, she believes that under any circumstance, working against the BOS is a far better choice than with them no matter who the enemy is.

    • #28918
       Blondie 
      Participant

      @wanda102 You see, this really upsets me… I may be outspoken and a little sassy, but I don’t think I’m a bully… I am always open to discussion

    • #28921
       Meghan Mayhem 
      Participant

      Yeah I especially like the part where she followed a link posted in a separate BOS slack, went through like 5 levels of BOS themed puzzle cracking, that led her to a BOS website so she could email the BOS website admin just to say “I will not support you.”

      Ok? Then don’t. No one is forcing you to. You don’t have to yell at the waiter that you don’t like seafood if you see it on the menu. Just order the damn steak instead. It’s ok. It’s alright. I’m sure you’ll like the steak.

      Soooo back to the narrative discussion…

    • #28923
       Cristen 
      Participant

      @blondie you’re not, ma. It takes a lot of effort to actively bully a person and I think we’re above that. I do want new people to know that everyone is open to say whatever crazy shit they want to contribute here. Please speak your beautiful minds. Healthy arguing I love. Ask @nothenrygale, I argue with him at least three times a week, and if I reaaallly wanted to bully him, I know exactly where to send the glitter bomb.

    • #28920
       Robert Fuller 
      Participant

      I love you, Chelsea.

    • #28922
       Megan 
      Participant

      This is the narrative discussion. Morgan, your leader, literally asked for this.

  • #28910
     Crystal 
    Participant

    My choice was made over a year ago, I’m still occupying the same space as always.

  • #28924
     Lawrence Meyers 
    Participant

    Brotherhood of Seraph Alters Strategic Mission
    Downgrades “Burn it Down” to “Expose Their Underbelly”

    Los Angeles, CA – February 21, 2018 – The Brotherhood of Seraph (BoS) walked back its strategic mission to “burn down” data management service OSDM yesterday, according to Deputy Sycophant Spokesperson Meghan Sanders.

    In a statement made to the public, Sanders attempted to bury the change in a lengthy diatribe against Scientology, saying, “It was to expose [Scientology’s] seedy underbelly, and what they were getting away with in the name of the religion. And that is what I believe the goal of BOS is.”

    This stands in stark contrast to the shrill official cry to “#BurnItDown” that BoS has sported since its resurrection as a fraudulent organization based on a fraudulent organization in August.

    Former Crisis Communications CEO Andrew St. Jude notes, “This is a classic pre-failure setup known as a ‘pivot of desperation’,” he said, “It occurs when it dawns on the followers of any lunatic organization that they are about to be fundament fuc*ed by a cryptococcus-infected kangaroo with a co*k the size of Melbourne, yet need to save face. They begin to slowly walk back their public stance so they can point to it later and think they’ve fooled everyone other than their own lunatic followers.”

    The move, according to the manager of another local communications firm that spoke on the condition of anonymity, is an obvious concession that BoS is “utterly impotent, and has been from its origins as a lie specially created by OSDM”.

    “One cannot burn down something that is everywhere and nowhere, especially when one does have not have kindling, accelerant, or fire. Indeed, BoS has never managed to produce anything other than a book of wet matches from the Escondite, plucked from a urinal by Morgan Rooms,” the manager said.

    “Oh, wait,” he concluded, “except an exceptional ability to simultaneously hide multiple heads in the sand while refusing to ask questions, such as ‘why did we leave all those people behind anyway, and what does Morgan Rooms lust after, and what is he willing to do to get it.”

    [The firm manager requested a “male shrug emoji” be placed here. We could not accommodate his request]

    Morgan Rooms, a naturalized citizen born in the UK, allegedly on the run from INTERPOL for slander, could not be reached for comment because nobody at this newspaper wanted to actually have to talk to him. “Everything out of his mouth is a lie,” one reporter said. “I may as well just make shit up the way he does. What are the consequences? None!”

    Cult expert Dr. Wilhelm P. Q. Poindexter of The Wolseley Institute – not to be confused with THE Wolseley Institute — believes the entire scenario to be an elaborate test orchestrated by Noah “Fucking” Sinclair.

    “Current rumors suggest that Sinclair successfully conducted a palace coup inside OSDM. As with all such overthrows, the leader then purges the ranks of those he manipulated into assisting him, eliminating internal threats and consolidating power,” he said. “Mr. Rooms will, with any luck, be sentenced to life in a dungeon with dial-up internet and weak breakfast tea. Without any luck, they’ll just…well…[trails off into delighted laughter]”

    Dr. Poindexter concluded, “Sinclair is simply watching and waiting to see who follow the megalomaniacal and supremely-untalented-poet, Morgan Rooms, and who has the intelligence to think beyond free cereal,” he added. “Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?”

    Lone Samurai Press will stay on top of this story and report as conditions warrant.

    Until then,

    #burnitdown #exposethem #SheepToSlaughter

    • #28925
       Robert Fuller 
      Participant

      Okay, this is the best thing ever. Extra points for the shout out to my favorite institute for scientific research.

    • #28926
       Megan 
      Participant

      crickets

  • #28927
     Carl Webb 
    Participant

    Picking a side, any side, just makes good sense. At least that way there are some people who’ve got your back. I sort of stumbled into mine, I have to admit, but I have no regrets.

  • #28928
     Rpearl 
    Participant

    Jesus. I just made it to the bottom of this.
    I’ve been thinking a lot about sides since the MSE. I’m definitely not with the OSDM- I love the idea of orgies and drugs but drug orgies should be consensual in nature, in my opinion. I agree that a lot of the MSE was staged, but what I saw and the context behind it does not bode well for my trust of the OSDM.
    The thing about the BOS is, the group feels relatively impotent to me. I was there for the MSE finale and the whole thing felt a little anticlimactic. They burst in, made a lot of noise and left (yes they told Larry to take Stephanie but I feel like if they didn’t he would have anyways). Also, I don’t remember the whole speech, but Morgan seemed to dwell on the debauchery of the OSDM rather than the really fucked up stuff such as human trafficking and hypnotic brainwashing. I happen to love me some debauchery, but I don’t love human trafficking. Both the OSDM and the BOS seemed stilted and staged. They almost seemed like two sides of a whole than battling entities.
    Truth is, I don’t trust either of them. Not yet. I will label myself as
    side “agnostic” for the moment in the truest sense of the word. I don’t know enough to pick sides and I don’t plan on choosing any until I do, regardless of the pressure.
    The end <3

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Rpearl. Reason: was reminded that they didn't get stephanie- larry did and he's not part of BOS
  • #28934
     Sam 
    Participant

    @rpearl I adore you and this is wonderfully put.

  • #28935
     Rpearl 
    Participant

    @persephone the adoration is 100% mutual and I am honored that you appreciate my take <3

  • #28938
     Violet 
    Participant

    @rpearl Welcome to Team Me! There are cookies, but in the spirit of what we stand for, you hafta get ’em yourself <3

    (In all seriousness, though…I agree with @persephone. This was brilliantly put.)

  • #28942
     Rpearl 
    Participant

    @erisbonn <3 <3 <3
    Oh Team Me has some very prestigious members! I’m honored to be a part of it. However, I’m not sure if I want the cookies- I don’t know enough about them to trust them yet ;p

    Thank you so much for the support. I’m a little overwhelmed with the forums and haven’t really been posting much so I was super nervous. You and Sam mean so much to me!

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