October 4, 2017 at 11:50 am #25646
Earlier today I posted a text conversation between Sabrina and (we assumed) Darren. About an hour ago, I received a call from Sabrina.
She was angry. Pissed that I had shared a personal text exchange on a public forum that she said was, yes, with Darren. “In what world do you think that was okay? Take those down.” (I will not be taking them down. I think everyone has the right to know as much as we can learn about what is happening to us.)
“If you think this is a fucking game, then let’s play a game,” she said. She asked me to get a pen and paper.
“Los Angeles. Chapter 3 AL 21. Last data center standing. 91 little pencil pushers. You and the players of your fucking game have to make a real hard choice.” (There was a brief *beep* between AL and 21, which sounded like she pressed a button on the handset by accident; I may have missed a letter there but I’m pretty sure that’s correct.) She then proceeded to give us a task:
-She wants me to create a new poll.
-In this new poll, there are two options: “Dissolve” or “Absolve”
-One person will vote at a time, which she stated should start with me.
-Each voter will have the chance to pass the baton to the next voter — OR to stop the vote entirely. The person who stops will be the final counted vote.
-The outcome of this vote?
“In the end, you will either cause their reduction, or their relocation and resources in a different field.”
-She wants to see a poll in 24 hours.
Now then. To keep things orderly, I propose we use this thread for discussion.
I will start another thread for the vote itself at 5PM PT today.
October 4, 2017 at 11:54 am #25647
Want to confirm;
Dissolve = The final reduction happens with the LA crew
Absolve = They remain within OSDM but just moved?
October 4, 2017 at 11:55 am #25648
What happens if Bryan declines to vote and start things off? Or if there’s a tie?
October 4, 2017 at 11:58 am #25649
@nothenrygale She hung up when I tried to clarify, but “dissolve” and “reduction” were the first-mentioned options in both cases.
Exact-ish language from my notes:
“There are two options in this poll. Dissolve or absolve them. One person votes at a time. Starting with you.”
Consequences as quoted above.
October 4, 2017 at 11:59 am #25650ChloeParticipant
@daela, seeing how OSDM works, my guess would be that they would just automatically dissolve if something like that were to happen.
I guess this answers the question some were asking of what would you choose if you knew what the consequence would be. Even knowing what I want to vote, it’s still going to be a difficult decision.
October 4, 2017 at 12:02 pm #25651
Confirm, please the order of the vote – do you choose who votes 2nd?
October 4, 2017 at 12:04 pm #25652
My understanding is Bryan votes. He then either elects to stop the vote, or pass the vote on to the next person. That person then makes the same two decisions. Dissolve / Absolve, then Stop / Continue.
October 4, 2017 at 12:07 pm #25653
October 4, 2017 at 12:09 pm #25655
October 4, 2017 at 12:11 pm #25656
October 4, 2017 at 12:14 pm #25658
I’m still confused about what means what. What dissolve or absolve means in this instance.
October 4, 2017 at 12:14 pm #25659
To clarify: no specific instructions were given with regard to what constitutes the “next” voter, but the inference seemed to be that each person would hand off to someone of their choice.
Given that this is as much about testing us as it is about determining what happens to any entity, that’s how I’ll be proceeding unless I hear otherwise from Sabrina.
October 4, 2017 at 12:29 pm #25661
I’ll post this here as well as in CONJECTURE, because I think it relevant to the Sabrina call. This references today’s quote and painting.
The quote is from one of the first Black Congressmen ever elected, Adam Clayton Powell Jr. (NOT of U2, and way to go for continuing to dishonestly post quotations) who did a ton of great things for civil rights, but is a hypocritical statement because he himself became corrupt over time.
The painting is “Invitiation to a Coup” by Wolfgang Lettl. Lettl’s painting (he was a German comms officer in WWII) is up for analysis, because I can’t find any online. To me, it seems that people can be two-faced when it comes to seizing power. One side is locked up and proper when things are all well and good, but when the time comes to seize power and one is invited to participate in an overthrow, the more deformed, crooked, puzzle-shaped pieces of the person are revealed — the darker side i.e. The Shadow.
This suggests that we are seeing the theme of Shadows reappear — two sides to Sabrina, a suggestion of Stephanie as a double agent.
[Also: I have no other information regarding Stephanie’s allegiances since the meeting.]
October 4, 2017 at 12:36 pm #25662Hannah SchenckParticipant
Bringing this from slack, why not be the wild card and go the unpredictable route? Obviously they think we will make a decision, otherwise they would have already made it for us. They want us to bicker and divide, but the unpredictable route would be to leave it up to them. It may benefit us in the long run if we start changing our methods of making decisions as a whole. Regardless, we need to stand together and stay focused.
October 4, 2017 at 12:37 pm #25663AddisonParticipant
No matter what happens with this vote, it guarantees that everyone that participates is going to feel responsible, everyone that’s active is going to be held responsible, and everyone is going to be upset at everyone else.
Those that weren’t able to vote will be upset that they didn’t have a say in the decision.
Those that vote one option will be upset at the person that shuts it down when the vote is leaning the other way.
Whoever shuts this down will be seen as public enemy #1, and that’s their goal. And it’s up to the community to self-regulate and understand the context of these decisions (lol)
Sabrina. You are a
October 4, 2017 at 12:38 pm #25664
October 4, 2017 at 12:40 pm #25665
October 4, 2017 at 12:42 pm #25666
I’m thinking not making a decision means they will do their worst. It doesn’t feel like there is a way around it.
October 4, 2017 at 12:49 pm #25667
What, in everyone’s mind, would “their worst” be?
October 4, 2017 at 12:52 pm #25670
More murder? I honestly don’t know what they are capable of when they are really angry. But I do think that if we try to get around making a decision they’ll be furious.
October 4, 2017 at 12:57 pm #25672JohnParticipant
It looks like an interesting way to see how many spineless jellyfish pass the buck before someone has the balls to make a decision.
Bryan, if you don’t make a decision, Sabrina may have you shave your legs and wear a dress 🙂
October 4, 2017 at 1:03 pm #25674
October 4, 2017 at 1:05 pm #25675
So I’ll just say this once and then I’ll be back for the vote.
If you vote dissolve, the OSDM shuts down for good, the CONSEQUENCES of which are that The Lust Experience comes to an end. WE, the PARTICIPANTS, will have to live with those consequences.
Is that a consequence that you are willing to accept?
We have to vote absolve.
October 4, 2017 at 1:07 pm #25676George ZunigaParticipant
There’s no doubt in my mind that this is a hard decision for some people to make, but from my perspective, the choice is pretty clear. I’m voting for dissolve. I voiced my feeling on this on Slack, but I’ll reiterate them here: fuck the OSDM. Personally speaking, I’ve no reason to be considerate of their livelihood or safety. I’ve no reason to show them humanity. I’ve no reason to show them mercy. Sure, I’ve been detached through most of these goddamned occurrences, but you know what? I’m in no way particularly obligated to give a flying fuck about them. There’s no reason for me to carry any sort of “moral obligation” towards their safety. If the decision is reached to have them dissolve, and the logic is “dissolve = death”, so be it.
On another note, there’s a funny little idea itching around in my brain. Call it apathetic, but who’s to say that our decision, this little straw poll… who’s to say any of it matters? People can say anything about anything. Option 1 leads to Outcome A, Option 2 leads to Outcome B and so on/so forth. Who’s to say, and furthermore guarantee, that our decisions will actually warrant the outcomes provided? We don’t know if they will. Counterintuitively to my point, nothing says that they won’t. Fact of the matter is that we don’t know, and there’s no proof of either. What we decide could produce something radically different from what we’ve been told it will. Just a thought.
Going off of the logic that our decisions potentially don’t matter raises the question of “Okay, so why are we doing this then? If it doesn’t matter, what’s the point?” I’m willing to wager that this might be some kind of test. See where we stand and all that. I know some of us have predilections towards particular groups… this might be a way of seeing where we stand. Outcome-wise, anything’s possible at this point. Food for thought.
October 4, 2017 at 1:09 pm #25678
Seems rather premature to assume that “Dissolve” means the total end of everything, eh?
Have we ever received positive confirmation that this is a total burndown and not just the dissolution of an arm of the OSDM? For all we know this is only the burndown of all data centers, with entities responsible for running things somewhere else
October 4, 2017 at 1:17 pm #25680
For all we know this is only the burndown of all data centers
According to Bryan, she said specifically, “91 pencil pushers….you will either cause their reduction, or their relocation.”
October 4, 2017 at 1:16 pm #25679
Sensing a lot of people who assume they have this all figured out today. Just saying.
October 4, 2017 at 1:18 pm #25681
October 4, 2017 at 1:20 pm #25684
91 is such a specific number. Is there a correlation between how many active participants there are and this number? Maybe this is a trick and we’re the pencil pushers.
If it’s about data, who else would be doing this work besides us?
October 4, 2017 at 1:33 pm #25689
Well, that’s a particularly angled paraphrase. The initial quote is: “Los Angeles. Chapter 3 AL 21. Last data center standing. 91 little pencil pushers. You and the players of your fucking game have to make a real hard choice.”
I take “Last data center standing” to be the operative phrase there. Destroying all data centers certainly seems to signify the end of something to me.
I think our choices here are very focused, and very specific:
1. Dissolve. We likely kill 91 people (and their familes). But all OSDM data regarding Lust, The Tension Experience, and whatever other experiments they’ve conducted goes goodbye.
2. Absolve. They simply reallocate resources and shift staff around. Nobody dies… but OSDM lives to fight another day, with their data on us intact.
It’s not a clean decision, and it’s not a convenient one. It’s fucking hard, and there are only shades of grey.
October 4, 2017 at 1:33 pm #25690JohnParticipant
I agree with Hannah. It’s highly unlikely that dissolve means the end of the “Lust Experience”.
It just means the end of the OSDM. Let’s keep the Lust Experience plot fresh. Vote dissolve and dump the OSDM. I trust the creators to come up with a new and more interesting antagonist.
October 4, 2017 at 1:37 pm #25691
“The OSDM proudly presents…” I don’t think this is going to work that way.
October 4, 2017 at 1:42 pm #25692
October 4, 2017 at 1:43 pm #25693
October 4, 2017 at 1:45 pm #25695
This raises another point: the question of what, if anything, exists outside OSDM’s jurisdiction. Mason appeared to exist outside of OSDM. BOS appears to. If OSDM shuts down, will Briarberg move in to fill the power vacuum? (Briarberg has their own data. Was that corrupted too?)
October 4, 2017 at 1:44 pm #25694
I feel like absolve is the right way to go. Aside from dissolve possibly ending all of this it’s also choosing to possibly end 91 people’s lives. I can’t choose to end potentially innocent lives
October 4, 2017 at 2:02 pm #25698LiaParticipant
I’m stuck on what @daela said.
How would shutting down their last standing chapter and eliminating the 91 be in their best interest?
This isn’t like some Walking Dead, “Cut your son’s arm off or I’ll kill you” nonsense. She’s letting us decide if we want to cripple the organization that backs her. No one else finds this INCREDIBLY fishy?
Like if it doesn’t really matter to her whether or not these 91 peons get fired or thrown into a fire, then why are we listening to her at all?
October 4, 2017 at 2:14 pm #25699AddisonParticipant
It’s a bluff. There’s no way it isn’t.
After the community is up in arms about the dissolution of other locations, the “reduction” of staff.. now we’re being asked to do it.
We collectively choose “dissolve” and we’re done here. No more OSDM. No more Lust Experience.
BOS wins, but they kill 91 people – will they do it?
Or do they let OSDM limp along, heavily “reduced” but still alive?
And if they don’t, and OSDM survives, the emotional fallout from this decision is enough to rebuild the database. Honestly, even if they do, there’s still a chance that this emotional data will be collected and OSDM continues with a skeleton crew.
We’re playing chicken with peoples lives and regardless of our decision, everyone will lose.
October 4, 2017 at 5:01 pm #25729
October 4, 2017 at 2:19 pm #25700
Was in a meeting when Sabrina called again. She left a voicemail clarifying the stakes involved in today’s vote:
“Bryan, I hate repeating myself, even when clarifying things you don’t understand. You’re voting on our last data center. Taking down the ODSM is like trying to take the oxygen out of the air we breathe.
These are accountants, academics, psychologists, mathematicians.. anything. Some don’t even know what the numbers mean. They have a nine to five and benefits packages. Do you get that?
They also have their DNA and dental records on file, and we monitor every phone call, email, and conversation they have. But these are people like you, Bryan. That’s whose fate you are deciding.”
October 4, 2017 at 2:22 pm #25701
Ok, so we are talking about whether or not we take out this final center and what happens then to those 91 people, presumably innocent people, who may not have any idea what numbers they are typing into a spreadsheet. Neat.
October 4, 2017 at 2:25 pm #25702
We will affect low-level employees, but nobody who matters – Horace, Timothy Granik, etc. No matter what we vote, the OSDM will live on.
October 4, 2017 at 2:25 pm #25704M.Participant
It seems like there’s more to this than just “dissolving” the center. Are we dissolving people’s lives? And with no data center/OSDM, does it all end? All of it?
It’s a fucked up situation.
October 4, 2017 at 2:27 pm #25705
October 4, 2017 at 2:25 pm #25703
So about the “relocation and resources in a different field” if we absolve, what if that means Briarberg? All of their resources are shifted to Jaime and Mason and co? They’ve made it clear in the past that Briarberg was formed as an “alternative” to the OSDM, and it’s likely they share many of the same goals, just with a different approach.
October 4, 2017 at 2:33 pm #25706
Some don’t even know what the numbers mean. They have a nine to five and benefits packages. Do you get that?
As we move forward, this piece of information is vital. Not everyone who works for OSDM even knows what they’re working on or who they’re working for.
October 4, 2017 at 2:36 pm #25707
Like I said. People’s lives are at stake. Do we want to be the reason they die?
October 4, 2017 at 2:38 pm #25708Candace Van HulleParticipant
I assume that if the choice to dissolve was the majority vote, more than 91 people will be affected (aka the families). But I’m very curious if the OSDM would kill the entire family, or if the employees have kids, take those kids and raise them to whatever standards or beliefs that the OSDM has. If the OSDM is as powerful and far reaching (or was), I don’t think this would be a great stretch. Mostly bringing up that idea because talk of children and bloodlines keep popping up every so often.
The major players in the OSDM will not be affected other than having to restart whatever plans they have in motion. I’m not entirely sure how dissolving this data center will do much of anything except hinder them for a while.
October 4, 2017 at 2:44 pm #25709
I really think that in any situation it’s a good idea to consider worst case scenario and whether you’re willing to accept responsibility for that. I know that to many that sounds like overreacting, but have a drink with me sometime and I’ll explain to you how it’s worked for me so far, especially insofar as Tension/Lust, and you might change your mind.
It’s also a good idea to not complicate things. The simplest explanation is the most likely. We were given a recording that – by the simplest explanation – indicated the killing of an entire family, including a child. Why complicate it? Why try to parse that and make it into something more palatable? The child died. Period. If we dissolve the OSDM, children will die. They will not be spared.
The OSDM runs The Lust Experience. The simplest explanation says that if we dissolve the OSDM, there will be no more Lust Experience.
Those are your consequences. TPTB *love* their consequences and making us live with them. They are giving us the rope with which to hang ourselves.
October 4, 2017 at 2:48 pm #25710MarandaParticipant
I’ve had some thoughts since before the THEONE vote but I wasn’t as open with them as I should’ve been, so here goes again. Our existing data means very little in the grand scheme of things. No data? Start over and get more. Impeded by the shininigans of the LA group? Get unwitting people who are less rowdy to give them data. The body of the OSDM is the data centers and the everyday people that man them, perhaps unknowingly, but the head is what we need to strike at if we want to do any permanent damage.
None of us want pencil pushers to die. What the reduction did to the other data centers we can only guess, but assuming the worst-case scenario, someone up top gave the order to do it. Let the body walk away. We have to turn our attention to the head.
October 4, 2017 at 2:50 pm #25711
We’re all kidding ourselves if this is the last piece of OSDM and if we choose to dissolve it, then that’s the end. There’s no way.
Organizations as powerful as that would never let that happen. They have backs ups in place. They have plans in place. People like Michelle and Horace and whoever else don’t go to the office on Monday morning and work until 5. They’re much smarter than that.
OSDM will, unfortunately, live on and keep on destroying sacred books and people’s lives no matter what happens today.
October 4, 2017 at 3:05 pm #25713
OSDM will, unfortunately, live on and keep on destroying sacred books
By burning one book, they’ve truly made a lifelong enemy, huh?
October 4, 2017 at 2:58 pm #25712
I agree with @coryphella in that I think we have to look at this in the simplest way possible. We dissolve, people die, and that’s on us. Aside from, ya know, death, there’s a strong possibility that the Experience, all this, is done. We all go back to our lives without this, and the knowledge that we very likely may have caused people who have no idea what’s going on to die. And like @daela & @candaceisstuck pointed out, this won’t affect the big players. OSDM will likely go on in some other capacity. I’m sure they have contingency plans.
They are giving us the rope with which to hang ourselves.
Exactly. Either we allow OSDM to continue whatever the fuck it is they’re doing, and MAYBE eventually find something resembling answers, or we don’t, people die and all this is over (for us, anyway). Even if we “win” it isn’t really a win is it?
October 4, 2017 at 3:22 pm #25714
October 4, 2017 at 3:23 pm #25715CristenParticipant
Sabrina’s clarification to Bryan hones in on the fact that we are behing asked to decide the fate of real people, and whatever we chose would be no skin of the OS/ODSM’s back. If “dissolve” means “put to death,” which a lot of us are assuming it does, then it feels like we’re being deliberately pushed to choose “absolve” as the empathetic choice. Why? It couldn’t be so cut and dry, nothing here is. Remember when Mason led @bcbishop to believe he had a chance to save Joyce? That chance never existed, as we found out.
As tempting as “absolve” is from a moral standpoint, I doubt it’ll turn out to mean what we think it does.
October 4, 2017 at 3:39 pm #25716MarandaParticipant
Thinking about what you said, what if there’s not really a choice at all? I mean, why is the OSDM letting us decide what to do? It’s possible that this is a false decision, and that they’ll do whatever they were planning to do from the start, only using our “decision” to get data out of us or guilt trip us. No matter what we decide, it’ll be the wrong answer.
October 4, 2017 at 3:40 pm #25717
I agree, @mike. OSDM does not live or die based on what is decided today or yesterday. Yet more to the point, I personally have not seen any direct evidence of OSDM as having done anything concretely harmful — certainly nothing on the level that would permit anyone to sit in judgment of 91 individuals + kin, and certainly nothing that has apparently resulted in the deaths of far more.
It seems the choice is very clear for a number of reasons.
Were I @bcbishop, which I thankfully am not for many reasons having to do with looks, I would ABSOLVE and end the voting right there.
The message from Sabrina was clearly intended for him. He abstained earlier and is being forced into a decision. He’s an “influencer”. And frankly, I wouldn’t want the burden of this decision, so he’d be showing the rest of us a kindness by taking on said burden himself.
Tangential note: The leaked text exchange makes it seem as if Sabrina infiltrated OSDM of her own accord, and doesn’t need saving (You hear that @111error and everyone else who insisted she did?), and was working on her own operation, and the BoS “attack” fucked up those plans. This is the equivalent of bumbling local cops busting an operation w/o realizing that someone might be on the inside — which is why they should have instead tried to make contact with Sabrina instead of insisting she needed saving and had to be out of her mind.
Theme repeated: No forethought. No overall strategy. Just “burn it down”. Nice job. Getting better and better by the minute.
- This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Lawrence Meyers.
October 4, 2017 at 3:53 pm #25719SageParticipant
@nothenrygale, that’s an interesting take. If we vote to dissolve, they could be killed. If we vote to absolve, they could be relocated and repositioned to Briarberg and harm more people. This is like that Joker/Batman dilemma. Damn…
October 4, 2017 at 4:17 pm #25721
Copied from Slack discussion:
I think this vote will be important but not for the reasons people think it is. This is a chance for Sabrina and OSDM to collect more data. See who we all forward the vote to. Will the PrOSDM crew only pass it among themselves? Who will have the balls to end the vote? Will people send the vote to someone they know will vote differently from themselves?
If this truly had the consequences they want us to think this does, they wouldn’t leave the decision to us. They’d just do it.
October 4, 2017 at 4:52 pm #25724KortneyParticipant
This is what I was thinking. They had a field day the last time a vote happened and there was a consequence, as everyone reacted to it- even people who didn’t vote.
This is another vote, that we are warned that we will affect people directly – innocents. So. It’s going to be interesting to see what people do, especially since some people who are also major influencers aren’t chiming in.
October 4, 2017 at 4:27 pm #25722Michael RizzoParticipant
With the clarification that a lot of these “pencil pushers” are only looking at numbers and don’t even know what they stand for, I’m very confused why they would feel the need to slaughter them? The call @addisonborn received made it seem like those two knew what the deal was, but if these people don’t… then what the fuck?
October 4, 2017 at 4:54 pm #25725
Exactly @rizzzoooooo. Moreover, people keep saying that Briarberg is equivalent to OSDM. As mentioned, I see nothing broadly and concretely harmful that OSDM has done, so given that we know next to nothing about Briarberg, why is even so quick to render judgment on them?
Hasn’t anyone learned that rendering judgment without forethought or information leads to DEAD PEOPLE?????
October 4, 2017 at 4:59 pm #25727KortneyParticipant
Personally, I hope to see everyone vote just to see us start a fire.
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